Breaking Free from Binge Eating and Digestive Issues Through The Magic of Herbs
Welcome to the Satiated Podcast where we explore physical and emotional hunger, satiation, and healing your relationship with your food and body. I'm your host Stephanie Mara Fox, your Somatic Nutritional Counselor. After I was diagnosed with irritable bowel syndrome around the age of 20, I dove deep into the holistic health world. I was not going to settle with the doctor's suggestion of just managing my stress and watching out for my triggers. It started first with discovering yoga, which led me to Ayurveda and that opened me to studying nutrition, herbs, and supplements. I discovered so many resources to support my digestion and feel more at ease when eating any meal. Herbs continued to support me after a big binge. As I slowly came back into my body after a binge eating experience, there were things I knew I could do to support my distended and bloated belly. This is why I've always fallen in the middle of that food matters and food doesn't matter when healing from disordered eating and digestive complaints. Food and herbs can be an incredible resource in helping to regulate your nervous system AND your body also needs to feel safe regardless of what you're ever eating. And this is exactly what Olivia Amitrano and I explore today. Olivia is a clinical herbalist, host of the What's the Juice Podcast which I was honored to be on to discuss a nervous system perspective on binge eating and she is the founder of Organic Olivia. Today, we chat about the journey Olivia went on to heal her gut which led her to discover Traditional Chinese Medicine, becoming a clinical herbalist, and then sharing her wisdom to support others on their wellness journeys. We chat about the wisdom in digestive complaints, herbs that can support a dysregulated nervous system, what her binge eating healing adventure entailed, and the foods and herbs that supported her in creating a more regulated relationship with food and her body. I loved every part of our conversation! I have included the herbal suggestions Olivia makes throughout this episode in the show notes and if you're curious about a somatic approach to your food coping mechanisms, the doors to my Somatic Eating® Program will be opening again in March so be sure to go to somaticeating.com to join the waitlist today. Now, welcome Olivia! I'm so honored to have you here today. And really, really excited to dive into just talking about all the things of eating and herbalism and body and yeah.
Olivia Amitrano 03:01
Thank you so much for having me on. It's an honor, I loved your episode on my show, you have so much to teach and share and I hope I can share even a fraction of what you did.
Stephanie Mara 03:05
Oh, yeah, I mean, you have such an interesting path and you have built a powerhouse of a business supporting so many 1000s of individuals. So I'd love to hear first of how you got to this point of creating such an amazing business of Organic Olivia and you know, what were the steps along the way that got you there?
Olivia Amitrano 03:31
Yeah, so I like to think of my business today Organic Olivia, which is like an herbal supplement herbal remedy company, as sort of a full apothecary of all of the formulas that I wish I had when I was first starting to wade through the world of supplements and herbal solutions, as you know, integrative pieces along my health journey, because when I first got into the alternative health world, it was very much by accident, it was because I was at the end of my rope, and I was getting no solutions from conventional medicine. I mean, truly, I appreciate so much what modern conventional medicine has to offer in terms of acute situations and antibiotics and surgery and all the good stuff. But when it came to my chronic digestive issues, chronic cystic acne, chronic anxiety and mental health issues and how they all seem to flare up at the exact same time, and they all seem to be connected. Every single doctor and specialist that I saw was like, nope, you're crazy. They're not connected. Your digestion is in no way connected to your anxiety. Your skin cannot be connected to what you eat. It's just impossible. Your stool tests are negative. There's nothing wrong with your gut. Like the microbiome wasn't even a thing at this point. We were not using terms like gut brain axis or gut skin axis and it was probably this was like 2011 maybe 2012. So wellness as a whole and holistic health as an industry or like a you know, any source of information was in its infancy. So I was really desperate because I had I had really intense IBS, irritable bowel syndrome, and I was put on a lot of different medications to try to help it. I was put on antispasmodic medications because my pain was so bad when I ate certain trigger foods that I would have to pull over when I was driving, I would have to like, you know, be at the gym on the treadmill, because I had just eaten some peanut butter or some yogurt before my workout and I had to get off the treadmill and like go in the corner and hunched over in pain, it was so bad. So I was put on all these medications that like help temporarily or didn't do anything or cause another side effect. And then I also had really severe cystic acne on my face and on my back. And I would notice that when I would be put on an antibiotic for my acne, all of a sudden, my IBS and my digestive symptoms would improve. And I was like, what is the connection here, you know, my skin is clearing up because of an antibiotic. So there's a bacterial component, and then my digestive symptoms are getting better is there also a bacterial component within my gut, an overgrowth of sorts of some bacteria, that's messing with my digestion. And again, doctors were saying, it's just all in your head, it's because antibiotics are anti inflammatory, that's why your guts getting better. But I just had this inkling that hey, things are connected. And that's the tenant of Holistic Health. And so I got really curious, like I said, I also struggled a lot with mental health, anxiety and depression, I was put on a lot of different medications to try to remedy that. And again, they would work in the beginning, but I'm kind of like a non responder when it comes to SSRIs, I get like a good placebo effect in the beginning, and then the effect just drops off, or I feel worse. And so I had like, you know, treatment resistant depression, I just, I was really struggling. And all these medications felt so promising in the beginning, didn't seem like long term solutions. And I didn't realize at the time that so much of the contributing factors to my experience of my symptoms, and my conditions was really lifestyle based. And so lifestyle solutions would ultimately be the long term fix that I was looking for. I just didn't know how to make those. I didn't know what those were, I didn't have the tools at that time to figure out my root causes. So I continued to be curious. I got into a college. I originally wanted to do nutrition, but the college that I got into and got a scholarship for didn't offer nutrition. So I said, you know what, they have a pre med program, why don't I go into pre med so that I can at least be in the medical field in some form, maybe I'll become a doctor, I just want to dig deeper on what's happening to me and find my solutions and then help other people. I always had a drive to help. I went through the first year, year and a half of my pre med program. And it was so strenuous. I mean they they designed it in that sense, they totally crush you with classes because they want to weed out the people that aren't serious. And so it's very intense. And I think the stress of all that just kind of hit me like a ton of bricks and my health got worse than ever. And I was in my doctor's office every morning at like 7am before my 8am class, like hey, now my lymph nodes are swollen, now I'm getting this rash, now my liver enzymes are high. And all of my other symptoms are really bad too, what is going on? I was like hitting this boiling point. And I heard many different things. My doctor said, well, you probably have an autoimmune disease, but we need to wait like probably seven years for it to actually show up on your bloodwork. Nothing I could do for you now or you know, he would say here, try this antibiotic, whatever. He would just keep kind of like throwing different drugs. And he's like, yeah, your EBV, your Epstein marker, your Epstein Barr Virus markers are high like you have some antibodies there. But I don't know if that's the thing. Like he would just kind of throw random things and be like, but who knows who could ever tell. And so I got on this one antibiotic that I had a horrible reaction to I was in the middle of chem lab and my skin was like itchy, I was kind of turning yellow. I already knew my liver enzymes were high. So I'm like, I could be like having a serious reaction to this. I need to figure something out. And I was so desperate that I ran out of that chem lab, I got in my car and I was like, every day I drive past that one little shop that says acupuncture and herbalism I'm just gonna go or acupuncture and herbalist, I'm just gonna go there and see what happens and I did not grow up with any kind of exposure to acupuncture alternative medicine, like my parents were pharmaceuticals all the way. I used to make fun of my friends who were like crunchy and would drink like rice milk or almond milk and I thought it was the craziest thing in the world but something in my heart told me to go there. So I drove there in my desperation I'm like sweating again like itchy like constipated for the sixth day. I'm so desperate. And I walk into this guy's office and he's like, stick out your tongue for me. I was like okay, and I stuck my tongue out and he's like, oh my god your liver your poor liver you have so much liver heat. And I'm like yeah, yeah, like my my liver enzymes are elevated obviously it's not a one to one in Chinese Medicine but he could tell something that I had physical proof of and he's like no your gut. Oh my gosh, you have like I can tell you have parasites and fungal overgrowth you have a lot of like dampness this white coating on your tongue, your gut and your liver really needs support. And so I was like yeah, I mean, that's my number one symptom digestion. So he gave me all these potions to drink this like liquid, these capsules. He told me to put everything and drink with some cranberry juice in the evening and I was like fine. So I spent like my last 120 bucks on these supplements and drinks that he gave me downed them for the next week and for the first time, I felt better for the first time in years, I felt better. The big cysts that were on my back and so painful started to flatten a little bit and calm down, and they weren't as red and painful. My digestion got better. I had a bowel movement, I felt calmer, I could just tell my body is receiving help from these plants. And this man was able to tell from my tongue, and I was so excited. And I went back and I kept working with him. And I started going down the rabbit hole of Chinese Medicine. And from there on out, I was just obsessed. And so I ended up switching my major and finished my college program. I studied psychology, I eventually because I still wanted to understand the mental health piece and still very passionate about that. But I totally went into herbalism eventually went to herb school in Brooklyn, did a three year clinical program, learn how to work with herbs, assess people, create plans for them, formulate, and now I have my line of herbal formulas.
Stephanie Mara 11:00
Oh my gosh, I resonated with so many pieces of that. I know that a lot of listeners here know a lot about my digestive history. And yeah, it's it's so confusing when you're trying to just do your best to show up for your body. And you don't know what your body's trying to tell you. Like I get curious about how herbalism started to support you in understanding your body?
Olivia Amitrano 11:27
That's such a good question. The first thing that comes to mind is that because I started to use different herbals, whether they were antimicrobial herbals that did help me to actually tackle and kill off some of those overgrowth that I was experiencing, I later now have a language for it something like SIBO and parasites is what I was experiencing. So I was using anti parasitic and antimicrobial herbs. I guess that sort of helped me to respect my bacteria. And that helped me to understand that there is a whole bacterial and microbial terrain and ecosystem within me that is in far more control than I am. And not only do I need to like use these herbs wisely, and you know, work with someone who could help me figure that out and rebalance things. But I needed to change my diet in a way to incorporate foods that would feed the right bugs, not just foods that were quote, healthy or low calorie or whatever, like foods that were actually nourishing to my gut bugs. So it really changed my relationship with food and that way and the way that I thought about nutrition as fuel, not just for me, but my bacteria. But it helped me keep my bacteria in mind in general. And then it also just helps me to respect A. how sensitive my digestion is, it just helped me to own that, like, you know, I'm probably always going to need to work with these plant allies in some way. Because I am a sensitive person. And when I'm stressed or whatever, I'm not getting enough sleep, it all goes right here. This is where my weak point is. And you always have to know your weak point. And it also taught me how intricately connected my digestion my digestive system was to my nervous system. Because so many of the herbal allies that I began using to support my digestive system were also nervines and the ones that helped me respond the most were things like chamomile, which is of course a digestive herb, and we know it does have microbiome modulating properties, and all of these different things. But most of all, it's it's a nervine, it's actually helping to down regulate your nervous system and get you out of fight or flight. And so it really showed me firsthand how different my digestion and my body could feel when I used allies that helped me to just take things a notch down nervous system wise, and it helped me to respect again, the sensitivity of even my nervous system that you can't, can't leave that out. You can't just take the pills and potions and be like, Oh, these will fix me, you also have to then take the wisdom and be like, how else can I support my nervous system beyond these plants? Because that's really the root issue.
Stephanie Mara 13:56
Yeah, I so appreciate you bringing in the body's weak point. And I like to normalize this as well, that no matter how much healing I've done on my gut, I know that that is my sensitive area, like Digestive Diseases run in my family. I know this is also something generationally that was passed down to me that I just have to be aware of like yeah, it's really strong right now with all the you know, physical and emotional work that I've done, but sometimes just to be in relationship and acceptance with the body. It is coming to terms with yeah, this is a part of me that that's how the body speaks to me is through really loud symptoms here.
Olivia Amitrano 14:38
Yeah, same for me generationally. My grandmother had stomach cancer. Everyone in my family has that nervous sensitive stomach, we'd like to put everything down here and in herbalism chamomile is actually for that person type where everything gets internalized directly to the solar plexus or the stomach. So no wonder that was my herb but there's types of people some people internalize everything and it goes to the lungs whenever they're stressed out, they get a bout of bronchitis, we all have that part of the body, that will kind of take the brunt of things. And then we also have, when you have a weakness, the body then compensates. So it's good to know your weakness. And then it's also good to know what your body then leans on when your weakness is present. So you can also support yourself there. So for me, when my stomach is weak, my body tends to kind of like go into overdrive adrenal wise. And in Chinese medicine, there's this interesting connection between the stomach or the spleen, and the kidneys, which also encompasses the adrenals, or our sense of vitality and energy and whatnot. And when I'm not supporting my stomach and my digestion or when I'm off there, all of a sudden, my kidneys take the brunt my adrenals take the brunt, I start to want to, you know, use like more stimulants, more caffeine to keep me going. I just push myself a little bit too hard. And I have to be aware of that, too.
Stephanie Mara 15:51
Yeah, I'd love for you to see more about some of the supplements or herbals that have supported you and your nervous system. I love that you went in that direction. We talk so much here about the nervous system and I find that yes, there's so many somatic resources that I reference here. And sometimes I hear from individuals, what else? What else could I be supplementing my body with, because I find that sometimes when you are potentially so much in a fight flight freeze shutdown state, that it's hard to practice some of the somatic resources that in a moment, and I always love giving an abundant amount of resources that it's like, sometimes it feels easier to reach for a supplement, to make that tea and like, slowly brings you back online to then be able to practice the somatic resources that might be available. So I'm wondering what else you have found, be that like, quick thing in herbalism, in some of the supplements that you've explored.
Olivia Amitrano 16:53
Yeah. I would say there's there's quick things and then there's also kind of long term things in the herbal world. Quick things would be kind of like the fast acting nervine that can help you switch gears, stimulate the vagus nerve, get you into parasympathetic mode pretty instantly to where like you said you can implement the practices and be in a headspace where you want to stretch or you want to meditate or you want to do any of the things you want to tap. But there's also these long term very deeply acting adaptogens or troppo restorative herbs is what we call certain herbs that really helped to slowly restore and rebuild the nervous system, the adrenal health and the adrenal reserves. So I like to look at both because usually both are indicated for a person who really is chronically stressed and chronically in fight or flight or has a history of trauma, you'll want to implement the fast acting nervines, and then also maybe a daily adaptogen, or a daily troppo restorative, or that's even gentler than an adaptogen, which is something like milky oats for folks out there who you just feel like your nerves are fried, you're frazzled all the time, even when you try to take adaptogens you almost feel a little bit too overstimulated from those milky oats seed is probably the herb that is indicated for you. And I feel comfortable saying that because it is very gentle, very nutritive, there's almost no contraindications on the planet. It's just the seed of the oat plant, kind of like eating oatmeal, but you're getting a higher concentration of nutrients. And it's very restorative to the adrenals. So that's something that I look to as a long term strategy for someone who's like, I jump at every loud sound, I just cannot relax. I can't even quiet my mind for two minutes to meditate. They probably need a gentle healer like that. And then there's other people who can handle more of the spicy adaptogens. And like those long term invigorators. That's also a long term strategy. But I love how you said in the moment, sometimes you need kind of like a like a gateway drug to get to the somatic practices. Because, yeah, like we're just so used to being disconnected from our bodies, that it can almost feel frightening or unsafe to do these practices that calm us down. We're so used to chaos that slowness, like it just doesn't feel right. So when you experience an herb that gently kind of coaxes you into that, it's just easier to get there and get into the headspace where those things feel good rather than scary. So I lean on different ones. Again, it's so specific to the person when you're doing an herbal intake with someone you really listen to the way in which they speak the language that they use, if there's someone who's like, openly complaining about their stressors, or someone who's kind of like gritting their teeth and being like, but it's fine. You know, someone who's like gritting their teeth and saying, but it's fine. They'd be more of a catnip person than a chamomile person, whereas the chamomile person is like, this sucks. I'm in pain all the time. Like I can't even function like they're not they're not afraid to whine about it. That's me. So I would look at different neurons depending on the indication, someone who has looping thoughts like the same looping thought pattern over and over again, it's keeping you up at night. You're replaying a certain situation in your head over and over again throughout the day and that's preventing you from calming your nervous system. Passionflower is a really good herb for that kind of person, you look at the tendrils and the way in which passionflower grows. And we call that the doctrine of signatures that kind of gives you a clue as to how it works or what it works for. And it's also just scientifically speaking really good at boosting GABA, the neurotransmitter I've looked at other nervines, like holy basil is a really wonderful one. That's a great or tulsi has another word for it. That's a great herb for someone who also has some symptoms of gut dysbiosis. Maybe you're working on your gut health, but you're still having a lot of anxiety that's connected to that it's a gentle gut modulator and also really helps you to have this focused sense of calm. So I like that during the day for people who need a nervine and there's just so many others and you can you can brew these in tea form, you can take them in tincture form. I love tinctures because they're so easy and you can dose them pretty high, which is how you want to dose a nervine. They're also very non toxic, safe to take and like a 500 to 3000 milligram dose, you know, like it ranges but you can take a good amount and so with tinctures you can take like one to two full droppers of a single nervine and have that instant effect.
Stephanie Mara 21:02
Yeah, you're taking me back to my days of like, my first book that I picked up was like Patrick Holford, like healing with whole foods. It's like this Bible that's like...
Olivia Amitrano 21:13
Oh, yeah, it's like dark blue.
Stephanie Mara 21:15
Yes. Yeah, this thick. And it's just, it was the first experience of I could support myself. Like the first modality I was checking out because I had gotten into yoga when I was like trying to also heal my gut was like, Ayurveda and just learning that and so I hear you, I'm like, Oh, my gosh, like remembering all of this and getting super excited of all my body's trying to talk to me. And there are many different ways that I can support it. And there are these things naturally in the world through food through herbs, that bring my body back into a little bit of equilibrium, that I can kind of like take the volume down a little bit with some of these things. And so I appreciate all of those suggestions. Because I find that when you're trying to learn the communication of your body, sometimes it can feel like you're not in control, because you don't know what your body's trying to tell you. It's really overwhelming. And that there are these things out there that when you start playing with your food, and what you are feeding your body in many different ways that can also start to teach you, oh, you know, when this happened, my body responded in this way, oh, when I ate this thing, my body responded in that way. Like I remember a very long time ago, going to a naturopath and they're like, Okay, well, you know, let's take a stool test, but I want to put you on all the supplements first because I suspect what's going on with you. And I was like, okay, so we do the stool tests, we're waiting for the results to come back and I'm taking all these supplements. And one of them in particular, every time I took it, my throat started getting sore. And I'm like, I really don't think this resonates with me. And she's like, oh this resonates with everyone. If I think what's going on with you like this should work for you. We get the stool tests back and she's like, Oh, no, stop taking those. And I'm like, Yep. She's like, oh, yeah, that's actually feeding a bacteria that you already have an overgrowth of, and I'm like, I didn't even need her to tell me that because the body is already talking to you in how it's responding to different supplements or herbs, foods in what resonates with you and what doesn't.
Olivia Amitrano 23:22
Yep, the body knows and the body will talk to you. Sometimes you'll even get clues through dreams like I've had that happen many times where an herb comes to me in a dream, I have this random guy in my dream who comes up and it's like, you need to take this or you need this flower essence. So it's interesting once you start kind of working with plants and kind of meeting them, I think plants are kind of alive and have a spirit in a sense just as much as we do. And once you begin a relationship with them, they speak to you whether it's through your intuition is through your dreams through whatever your body knows, and your energetic field knows more than anything. It's just like listening to the intricacies of that and being really body aware so that you can notice those small things like the tickle in your throat and also not gaslighting yourself to be like, Oh, it's just all in my head. No, if you feel something is off, or if you have even a little bit of an inkling that your body doesn't like this, listen to that.
Stephanie Mara 24:07
Yeah. Now I also know that something that you talk openly about on your social media page is your history with binge eating, which obviously many individuals who listen to this podcast are navigating that journey as well. And I'm curious how your journey with herbs supported you in your journey with healing from binge eating?
Olivia Amitrano 24:26
It's a good question because I I think for a long time, they didn't necessarily directly support me with binge eating. They supported me with so many other things whether it was clearing that those overgrowth, dampness, as we'd say in Chinese Medicine from my gut with my nervous system with having more like sense of power and confidence. Ginger is a really great herb for that that's helped me so much in that sense and just a stronger digestive system in general. They helped me in so many ways, but the binge eating aspect of my journey and my body's connection to it as a coping mechanism went so deep that it was like deeper than than what herbs could initially touch. Like it was kind of like in many ways, sometimes I really feel like herbs are a little bit more surface level a little bit more bandaid for the time that we need them. Unless you're working with like a, you know, a third generation Chinese Medicine practitioner who's custom formulating for you every week. And using really high doses, that's when someone can really move your root cause needle with herbs or things like adaptogens, or, you know, things that you're taking long term that are very restorative and nutritive, but for the most part, things like nervines or digestive bitters, you do need to kind of continue taking them and they're a tool, they're like a stepping stone. So I don't know if at the beginning herbs were able to get that deep, I think, perhaps, the journey of learning to trust myself through herbalism, learning to trust my body, learning to have a deeper relationship with my body and love my body more through herbalism and diet changes and lifestyle changes and exercise and therapy and all the holistic things that I think got me to a place where I was finally safe enough to be able to explore letting go of binge eating as a coping mechanism. And where I had enough like self reverence to be like, I'm strong enough to look at this and face it head on, kind of, but it took a long time to get there. I think it was like maybe seven, eight years into my journey with Holistic Health that I was like, Okay, this, I'm going to tackle this and I really, I feel like I fully tackled it. I don't want to say for good because everything's always going to be a journey. But I fully got to the root of it and feel complete a bit there last year, last year was when I was like, okay, my health is finally in such a good place. I'm not in survival mode any longer. I have my tools, I know what works for me. Now I can start to actually take away rather than add, and I was like, what are the things I need to take away that I'm actually continuing to lean on as a crutch that's helping me get to the next level that's preventing me from getting to the next level. And I had to look at letting go of using cannabis as a crutch. That's an herb that I used for many years to help my nervous system when I was just too stuck in fight or flight to function at times. And it really served me for the time, but it was so time to let it go. It was actually now you know, hampering me, I looked at my dependence on caffeine as a way not not like caffeines the devil or everyone has to give it up. But just for me, I realized I'm using this to push myself every day to be more productive to have a greater sense of self worth, because I can get so much done, but I'm actually using it to override my body's own signals and limits. So what would life be like without it? Can I function without it and then I also looked at binge eating and my sort of like my food addiction, I feel like I really did have a nervous system emotional based addiction to specifically hyper palatable foods, because they're so sort of exciting to the brain and can like really release that dopamine. And that's what my brain was looking for to help itself regulate. And I just grew up like when I was sad, Oreos, when my parents were fighting peanut butter, when like, I just had certain foods that were my coping mechanisms. And so I was like, Okay, I did the I gave up cannabis first last year in January, then in April, I gave up caffeine. And then in September, I like gave up, let's say or just challenged myself, can I go without these hyper palatable foods for a bit and those are the ones that I binge on. I wasn't binging on sweet potato, you know, it was like, let me I'll give myself all the nourishing whole foods that I could possibly want. There's no limit on what I'm going to eat. But I'm just not going to eat those foods that my brain is like, let's keep going. Let's just do this because they were a slippery slope for me. I just I realized at the time I was an abstainor not a moderator now I'm a moderator. But at that time, I wasn't. I will say that the one thing even though during that time, I had to do a lot more emotional work, I had to really sit with myself a lot more explore all those feelings underneath. When I wanted to reach for the food, I had to cry more I had to journal more I had to face my grief, I had to do a lot of emotional work. But I also found out that there was a very real physical and biochemical aspects to my binge eating and my nervous system dysregulation. And that was that I was not getting enough protein. And then I my body essentially the way that I see it, my body wasn't producing enough of the guts satiation peptide hormone GLP1 which is very popularized now because ozempic, for example, is a GLP1 agonist, when my body wasn't producing enough of this gut peptide hormone, because I wasn't eating enough protein I wasn't actually satiated and so that was kind of adding to my brain's proclivity to want to seek seek seek reward and pleasure because my body didn't feel safe it felt like I needed to keep seeking so I ended up eating a much higher protein diet higher protein than I ever thought I would eat in my life like 40 to 50 grams of protein for breakfast, I'm talking steak and eggs and berries and all that good stuff. And then I also started utilizing these blood sugar balancing or like blood Sugar regulating herbs that just so happened to help your body release more GLP1. And so I think the combination of the high protein diet triggering GLP1 and the herbs, triggering GLP1 helped me to just feel so much more satisfied to where even when my neural pathway was saying, Okay, it's end of the day time to reach for those cookies, I would reach for them. And I'd be like, Whoa, I don't really want them or like, I'm putting them in my mouth. And they're not lighting up my brain in the same way. It's just not like I was almost sad, because I'm like, Man, this used to feel really good. And now it's not. But then I'm like, But wait, I feel good. I feel okay. Right. And I don't actually need this. So it was 5050, I needed the brain chemistry piece from the GLP1 balancing herbs. And I can explain what those are. And they're very common things like Cinnamon can help, or Fenugreek and then the high protein diet, and then also all the emotional work and like, hey, what am I reaching for this? Because of what am I actually feeling right now? Can I feel those things a little bit more?
Stephanie Mara 31:00
Yeah. Oh, my gosh, so many pearls of wisdom in there. I first want to start with where you began of recognizing that there is no quick fix for binging.
Olivia Amitrano 31:10
Oh, my God, no, I tried for 10 years.
Stephanie Mara 31:12
Yeah, there's no herbs, there's no food. And I think there was a piece of my journey too where I was like, Can I just kind of like figure this out? And it just be done with? And it's like, no, it is such a long journey with so many layers that you pointed out. It's both the emotional, and it's the physical, and we have to address both. Because if we see binge eating as just a message from the body, it's like what is it trying to tell us of both our nervous system and what it's not getting nutritionally?
Olivia Amitrano 31:43
Yeah, 100%. And if there was a quick fix, like we'd all we'd all be on it. But it's so different for each individual, I think the protein piece and like the hormonal, like gut hormone piece probably applies to everyone, everyone could use a little bit more satiation on that gut level to just give them that extra edge. But when it comes to the nervous system piece, it's going to be so different for each person. And I think a lot of my journey, they're also involves, like, self esteem, I think and sort of like holding myself in a really high regard. Whereas I think part of my binge eating was sort of the self sabotage and this, like, self hatred like this, this really negative relationship that I had with myself, and I had to even go deep into like, okay, Whose voice is that? When I'm beating myself up in my head? Whose voice is that? Is that my voice? Or is that my mom's voice? Or is that you know, like, there was so much like so many different modalities that I use, like parts work and psychology and all these things to understand where that self sabotage was coming from. And I feel like things really clicked when I started to hold myself in high regard, and really take care of myself in different ways that spilled over into the decisions I was able to make around my eating.
Stephanie Mara 32:53
Yeah, and I love that you brought in that there is wisdom, even in the foods that we're choosing, when we're binge eating, like I've been very curious recently, and trying to do more research into this right now of like, how certain foods are mimicking certain nervous system states. And that's why we're drawn to like, you know, the Oreos, the whatever it is hyper palatable food, because it's perpetuating a nervous system state that we're already used to living in. And so there's some wisdom in that, that it's like, oh, this is helping me momentarily feel safe. But long term, it doesn't provide me the sense of, you know, ground connection, safety security that we're looking to have inside of our bodies. And so that's where some of that other work around what made me drawn to this food to begin with, comes in.
Olivia Amitrano 33:48
Yeah, and I think a lot of that, like, for me, it was a lot of sweet foods. And I look at that flavor, even from an herbal perspective, a Chinese medicine perspective. And when someone's craving sweet A, it's from that like weakness in the spleen or stomach, right, that the digestive system is looking for that sweet flavor, because usually a little bit of sweetness is very nourishing and strengthening to our digestive fire or digestive cooking pot. So something like sweet potato or you know, foods that have a natural sweetness content, even protein, and in Chinese Medicine protein is considered to have a slightly sweet flavor, it's of the earth element. And so it does resonate with the spleen and digestion. But so often when we're craving sweet, what we actually need is protein, but we don't get that because the spleen or the stomach is so weak that it's like give me the sweetest thing possible because I really need some support right now. And so we're just kind of going overboard and then it's having the opposite effect too much sweet is going to deplete it further. So it's very interesting. There's wisdom in it. But I also learned that plantwise adaptogens like these these hearty roots that are strengthening and very kind of neutral or sweetened flavor also will kind of help us to meet that flavor need that our body is intuitively asking for and that so many times that sweet craving is due to extreme exhaustion and depletion and fatigue and so adaptogens can help rest can help. So I started to look at those sweet cravings through the wisdom of Chinese Medicine and like, what is my body asking for? A digestive support B protein C rest for strengthening and repletion through adaptogens? And how can I target that sweet craving here? And then also yeah, like, what is sweet doing for my inner child and my nervous system, right? It's reminding us maybe of like, our mother's milk, or it's reminding us of these sweet foods that we had as a kid when life was simpler, or, you know, maybe the sugar like a combination, especially if sugar and salt can lower our cortisol, right? We know that. So maybe I'm just looking for a notch down in my stress response. So really, just kind of being the investigator versus the judger can be so helpful, and just getting curious curiosity just so much.
Stephanie Mara 35:48
Yeah. And you also pointed out one, like final piece of this journey, that there's a lot of grief, you said, like, oh, when you reached for the cookie, it was kind of sad, that it didn't produce the same reaction anymore. And I find that is such an important part that sometimes like blind sight to you of like, wait a second, but I'm healing and I'm doing all the things that like, feel in alignment with myself, and why am I so sad? And I find that yeah, when we start making different decisions, to align and listen to our body, that all of the grief that our body has maybe been holding on to for us that it now it has space to come up. And the things that once helped us aren't really helping us anymore, because we're so aware of what's going on that it just isn't doing also the same thing anymore.
Olivia Amitrano 36:37
Yeah. Yeah. And I guess there's also like, even when I think and try to embody that feeling that I felt putting the cookie in my mouth and being like, Oh, this is sad that it doesn't do the same thing. It wasn't even like, I was sad that the tool didn't work anymore. I was sad, that kind of sad that I didn't need it anymore. I was sort of sad that that was complete, and that I could see how much I had graduated because I had to maybe grieve all of the years that I was struggling, you know, and that like, that's not me anymore. And I'm so happy. But like, wow, I was stuck in that for so long. So it's just interesting. Sometimes when you actually get better and have something to celebrate, you have to grieve the years that you couldn't get out of it.
Stephanie Mara 37:15
Yeah. It reminds me of this moment that I also went through of like, Well, who am I now there's like an identity shift, where all of that time and that space that was so focused on the digestive issues, the eating issues, like all these things, and then suddenly, actually, the healing that I had been working so hard for was actually there and happening, like, well, what now? And who am I now? And like there's such an integration period? And also, like you said, curiosity of how do I want to fill that space in time where at first, you may have no idea?
Olivia Amitrano 37:50
Yes, that's it. Oh, my God, you're so right. Because it's a it's a oh, this doesn't work anymore. Now I actually have to go live. And when I think even of the sweetness conversation, and being the investigator there, it's my I hear my teacher Richards voice in my head, is that person getting enough sweetness in their life, you know, and so, I think it's like I during this time, and this, you know, adventure of exploring my binge eating and what would work, I also started to live a lot more. And I started to go out into the world and find different hobbies and meet more people. And I would notice, okay, when I'm solo traveling, and I'm meeting up with girlfriends, or making new friends, or having these social connections that are so filling, I go back to my hotel room at night, and I don't want to eat anything. And I'm full, I'm filled by these things. Obviously, these things are what I need the sweetness of joy and connection. And so once your consciousness I think, kind of graduates to that, and you get that identity shift of like, oh, this is what makes me happy. Now I'm kind of upgraded now. Now I crave this not just like the cookie in the box, you eat that cookie, you don't get the reaction, you're like, ooh, like, I'm reminded that I am kind of being asked to uplevel and upgrade and go out into the world and work a little harder, kind of to get the sweetness and I got to keep that commitment to myself. And I'm in a new chapter. And it's going to take more of me, but it's going to be more rewarding. So it's like, yeah, like almost grieving that upgrade even though it's happy.
Stephanie Mara 39:09
Yeah, so beautifully said, I completely agree with that there is such a mixture of emotion that I find, yeah, a huge part of this journey, like you were talking about before giving space to cry, giving space to emote, giving space to express that it's kind of leveling, the playing field of all emotions, like happiness is one of the most vulnerable things we can feel because it's the thing that we want to stick around. But the thing that just like any emotion is not going to all emotions are going to come and go. And so we get to you know, embrace when we feel the things that we want to feel knowing that they're not going to stick around forever. And also embrace that, like, Oh, if I don't feel how I want to feel that's also going to go away at some point as well. And that yeah, it's kind of giving space to feel the whole gamut of emotions as you continue to heal that. Like there's some moments where you're gonna feel elated. You're gonna be exactly where you Want to be in other moments where yeah, there's this grief, there's this sadness that will also come up and it's all a part of the journey.
Olivia Amitrano 40:06
100% Yeah, yeah. And I think it's like a, I almost think of this natural increase in consciousness and self awareness that led me to where I am now. Because I, as we're having this conversation in my head, I'm like, Okay, I really want to give people this tangible action plan as to how I did it because I you know, even the fact that you're asking me these questions, I'm like, How did I actually go from someone who sat there and like, could not stop putting hand to mouth with boxes of cookies, like just watching TV and then realizing I ate the whole thing to someone who is so in the driver's seat when it comes, like I have so much more consciousness around my decisions and my motivations behind them and my emotions that are feeding into them. And I think it's like this, this natural consequence of of increasing your consciousness and I don't say that in like a woowoo spiritual I say that in like a your willingness to show up to the reality of your life and who you are. And I think that as you become more conscious and curious and self aware and even start to get to know those emotions create space for the crying open those doors of like, yeah, what what is behind these tears? Like could I journal about it a little more that consciousness spills into your relationships, you realize I'm I'm kind of being you know, not the best person here, I'm being a little selfish in this relationship I'm starting to reflect there are you know, it, this person is violating my boundaries a little bit more, and you start to have more conscious relationships, and then that spills over into your relationship with yourself and with food. But it all starts with this conscious awareness and fostering that and, and then it spills into everything, it spills into how you feel about the environment, it spills into how you look at your shopping habits and your consumption period. But I think the more unconscious, we choose to be the more or not choose to be it sometimes we're forced into it by the nervous system coding of trauma, but the more unconscious that we are, and the more that we try to further that disconnection through substances or, you know, like habits like over eating that disconnect us from our bodies and the truth of our lives and our worlds. Like that's, that's how you get deeper into it. And so much of it was just me being unaware and not willing to look or see and like just wanting to hide from everything. But then I became present to my life and it spilled into everything.
Stephanie Mara 42:11
Yeah, it reminds me of what you were just talking about earlier of when you started this past year, like really looking at your consumption of some things and getting curious of like, is this serving me? And I find there's a point where I know for many individuals they're nervous about if they say no to something, does that mean they're back on a diet? Are they going to feel restricted? And I find that when you get to a place of like this deep listening, you just want to honor and respect your body and what it's telling you and what it's telling you works for you and doesn't work for you. It's not about restriction anymore. It's about this, it's easy to say no to something that doesn't feel like it's respecting you.
Olivia Amitrano 42:47
Yeah, it's easy to say no to something that is like attached to an old version of you. And you're like, No, but I'm this person now. And it just doesn't feel right to say yes to it. It's not like I'm forcing myself. You can't say yes, or you're a bad girl. If you say yes to it. It's like, ooh, that would really be kind of taking me a step backwards. And I want to be here. Now I want to be more present in my life. I want to listen to myself and have this relationship. I want to say no, so that I can make space for the right things. You know, it's this genuine wanting and excitement about the autonomy that you have over decision making versus it coming from this restrictive place.
Stephanie Mara 43:21
Yeah, yeah. Now, I know that you are like, I am trying to provide this like roadmap, which is so hard to do, because it's such unique to each individual. And I usually like to wrap up with a baby step. And there's so many different baby steps that we can start with that. I'm curious if you could offer a baby step with herbalism with food with anything that you discovered, what would you feel like would be a baby step with someone's listening to this there have been on a very similar journey?
Olivia Amitrano 43:49
Yeah, I mean, I think that the baby step, I would start with the physical biochemical aspect. I think that that makes it so much easier to be in a place where you can't you're more regulated, you're safer, you're not seeking as much and so that when you do want to seek you can kind of question that a little bit more and have more curiosity. So I would start with higher protein at mealtimes specifically at breakfast that was a game changer for me. Even if I had a solid amount of protein throughout the day, if I didn't really front load my protein at breakfast, I would always have pretty insatiable sweet cravings at night. So I found that with the way that my situation hormones work, they needed a huge dose of protein first thing in the morning and that's why my first meal is always usually my biggest meal and I I tell people I eat and tell them a little bit more than full at breakfast because a I digest it so well because it's first thing in the day go for my dog walk after like it digests but like I'm not afraid to be uncomfortably full at breakfast or like not so uncomfortable. I'm not afraid to be like stuffed at breakfast. I love a hearty breakfast because I know what that means for my brain in my hormones at the end of the day. So that's number one. And my other baby step would be to utilize the herbs and the tools that can increase your GLP one, your satiation hormones so that your brain feels safer and you're just naturally not looking to eat as much or consume as much as a way to regulate. So those herbs are things like cinnamon fenugreek gymnema is a great one. But our melon is a great one, I made an herbal formula called gluco bitters. And this is what I had used myself to boost my GLP. One at the time, I was also pre diabetic as a consequence of just I guess, my lifetime of binge eating. And just like my metabolic dysfunction due to it, my labs were not looking good. So I made this formula called gluco bitters, it's all of these herbs extracted into vinegar, because vinegar can also help us to utilize glucose more effectively feel more satiated and experienced less cravings. So even if you just want to take vinegar before your meals, that's great. You don't have to get my formula. Or if you just want to add more cinnamon into your meals into your smoothie in the morning, that's a great place to start. But my formula kind of has them all extract in the vinegar, so you get a double punch. And it's easy.
Stephanie Mara 45:52
Awesome. Well, I will certainly drop a link to that in the show notes. And I'm wondering how individuals can keep in touch with you and just the amazing work that you're doing in the world.
Olivia Amitrano 46:01
Of course, I think the best way to keep in touch at this point in time, my brand's Instagram, it's at shop organic Olivia. That's where we post a lot of our educational content, all the things that we're doing community events, new formulas, things of that nature. And then of course, my website, organic libya.com. If you go to our blog, we're becoming very active on the blog. We always have been we have hundreds of articles there, but we're really pumping out some good educational articles there as well. My podcast is called What's the juice podcast? Stephanie was on my podcast, please listen to her episode. It's amazing. And my personal I'd say Instagram is at organic underscore Olivia, but I am currently having an identity crisis. And I think I want to move to the woods and become an artist. So I'm not really posting on my Instagram a ton at this moment. But if you want to see what ends up happening to my personal journey, you can follow me there.
Stephanie Mara 46:52
Oh my gosh, I love that. I just hear you're in the next iteration of like, you know, just your deepening into that. Yeah, what you want for yourself in your life?
Olivia Amitrano 47:02
Yeah, for sure. I'm like, so tired of the consumption and the like, just everything about social media in general. I'm very lucky to have a business that's passion based where I'm making products that I believe in. But even with that, I'm like, I don't want to oversell people make them feel like they don't they need something that they don't and just the whole like social media influencer culture can get really overwhelming. So I like moving away from that in every aspect. And I'm like, What does bring me joy? What can serve the world and I'm into making art right now. So we'll see.
Stephanie Mara 47:29
I love it. Well, if you ever post any of your art, I will be right there on your journey. Maybe like, what's Olivia doing? Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Yeah, well, thank you so much for just sharing your wisdom today and your journey and your expertise. I know that listeners are really going to get so much out of this conversation. And you know, for anyone listening if you have any questions, I'll leave both of our contacts in the show notes. So reach out anytime and I hope you all have a beautiful rest of your day.
Olivia Amitrano 47:57
Thanks so much, Stephanie.
Stephanie Mara 47:59
Yeah, bye!
Keep in touch with Olivia here:
Website: https://www.organicolivia.com/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@organic_olivia
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/organic_olivia
https://www.instagram.com/shoporganicolivia
Herbs: https://www.organicolivia.com/products/glucobitters-1