How To Re-Build Body Trust

Welcome to the Satiated Podcast where we explore physical and emotional hunger and satiation and healing your relationship with your food and body. I'm your host Stephanie Mara Fox, your Somatic Nutritional Counselor. Today we are joined by Sarah Lavelle. Sarah is a Clinical Psychologist and owner of New York Health Hypnosis and Integrative Therapy, where she became an expert and advocate for people struggling with weight, sugar and binge eating. Her work with eating disorders has been highly recognized with articles about her and her team appearing in Forbes, Prevention, Elle Magazine, New York Times and New York Magazine. She is soon to be launching beabettereating a mindfulness based app to help people with their relationship with food. Sarah's passion for supporting individuals trust their bodies again is inspiring, and I'm so excited to chat with her today. Welcome, Sarah!

Sera Lavelle 00:57

Thank you so much for having me.

Stephanie Mara 00:59

Yeah!

Sera Lavelle 00:59

I know, we've chatted in the past. And it's so nice to meet somebody who's so like minded and wants to get out of this, like diet, diet diet, and just kind of focus on body awareness. So I'm thrilled to be here, and I can't thank you enough for inviting me.

Stephanie Mara 01:11

Yeah, we've had conversations before. And we live actually like across the United States from each other. And I think when I met you, I was like, Oh, my gosh, this is so profound that someone literally is saying, like, the same things that I say. So I'm excited to dive in more today. And as we kind of get started, I would love to just hear more about how you got into this work and how did your work evolve over the years.

Sera Lavelle 01:35

Yeah, what I really hear you saying is also once we understand the meaning that is being made around the focus of weight, that actually addressing like the underlying meaning actually makes more profound shifts in healing occur than attending to the weight itself.

Sera Lavelle 01:35

You know, it's interesting, because I originally wasn't even thinking I'd be working with weight. You know, I learned hypnotherapy as an adjunct to my clinical psychology education. You know, I just felt like there was something missing. And I wanted something more holistic. Now, I love having psychology as the basis for everything. But being able to help people with mindfulness and hypnotherapy really, like it's very inspiring for people and very empowering because it's getting out of the classical psychology model of you know, you have a, you have a disorder, you have this, you have that. And just the whole framework of hypnotherapy is well, let's focus on what you want to be and how you want to achieve it. As opposed to like, let's think in terms of diagnosis. However, hypnotherapy is something people really come to for weight issues. So you know, I learned hypnotherapy. And all of a sudden, I had a lot of people, even if it wasn't their primary concern, would say, hey, while I'm here, you know, I've really been struggling with snacking. And I just dove into it, I saw how much people were struggling. You know, I started taking eating disorder classes through my PhD program. But more than that, I just read so many books on it. Until so many scripts, and the scripts for hypnotherapy, were all about body awareness. And I find it interesting that we have this culture that tries to teach people how to diet and yet people who naturally eat well, they're not counting calories, people who naturally eat well actually just have more body awareness. So when I found how powerful hypnosis could be for this, and how many patients like that actually made a big change for them, it's really all I want to focus on is helping people really heal from this because I find that a lot of my patients actually don't care about their weight. They really don't, what they care about is that they have this intention for themselves. And they're like, Okay, I'm going to eat perfectly, I'm going to do this, I'm going to do that. And then they feel so badly about themselves. And that causes them in this binge cycle. And when you can heal that, then they can actually focus on other areas of their life. They can focus on their relationship, they might find out what's really going on deep down inside. I love removing this first layer, and just helping them feel good about themselves and their choices again, and it seems like such a freeing thing for so many people.

Sera Lavelle 04:05

Absolutely. It's never about the weight, it never is. It's about like feeling something that's emotional and wanting it to go away suddenly. And you know, for some people, that's drugs. For some people, that's food. For some people that's zoning out to TV, but you know, there's so much you can heal by healing your relationship with food because food is nourishment. When did it get so complicated?

Stephanie Mara 04:28

Yeah. Yeah, I totally agree with that, where when we shift that, oh, I can enjoy and feel the pleasure from eating again. And then it's like, okay, all the things that got wrapped up around the relationship with food of even putting so much expectation on I need this meal to feel like it provides me the love acceptance, pleasure, nourishment, all the things that I'm looking for that it's like, okay, allow food to be nourishing and let's also find other ways for you to receive emotionally what you're wanting as well.

Sera Lavelle 05:00

Yeah. Because isn't it ashame, if you do this thing for pleasure, and you're trying to feel better, and then you end up feeling worse. It's like you never end up getting out of it what you think you are anyways?

Stephanie Mara 05:13

Yeah. So I'm curious, because I know how passionate you are about body trust. And let's start with what do you in your experience find breaks someone's trust in their body? And then what have you found heals it?

Sera Lavelle 05:26

Wow, I mean, I think we're gonna need a few more podcasts. I mean, I really think it starts at a young age, and you know, in this culture, and a lot of cultures, right? I mean, I think we get a lot of messages that from our parents that just systematically teaches us not to trust our bodies. Right? I was actually just reflecting on it this morning. I have four year old twins. And my little girl had actually eaten two meals, and we had a babysitter over and she's like, Oh, no, you've already had two meals, you can't be hungry. And I was like, I was like, No, if she's hungry. She's hungry. Right? And there's something I think very damaged about telling somebody not not only don't eat more, but you shouldn't be hungry, right? And it's like, in all fairness, my babysitter did not say don't, you shouldn't be hungry, but...

Stephanie Mara 06:20

So many individuals receive that message.

Sera Lavelle 06:22

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Right. And it's like, okay, well, maybe you know, it's not time to give her candy. But if she's hungry, I don't want her to lose trust in her body, you know, and maybe she's going through a growth spurt. Maybe she just ran around at the playground and burned a she's going through a growth spurt. Maybe she just ran around at the playground and burned a lot of calories. Right? I mean, bodies are bodies. And, you know, if we're hungry, we're hungry. Right? So then you're cutting off your hunger signals, right. However, we're also taught at a young age to cut off our satiation signals. I mean, think about the clean plate club, right?

Stephanie Mara 06:22

Yeah

Sera Lavelle 06:53

You can't do anything until you finish everything, right. And so it's like, maybe you're not hungry that day. Or maybe, you know, it's, you're being forced to eat these vegetables, as opposed to just like trying it and seeing if you like it, but you have this reaction to it as a child, it's like you don't like the taste. And so I think it's starting at a young age, you know, we're just taught these things, right, like, in our childhood, but then it goes further into society. Right. I mean, I was reading that, you know, it's a large percentage of five year old girls are already unhappy with their bodies.

Stephanie Mara 07:28

Yeah

Sera Lavelle 07:29

And when you think about it to be a model or a ballerina, I've worked with a lot of patients who, almost by definition, to keep their career have to lie in the anorexic range. So we have these little girls, little boys aspiring to look like the people on TV. And all of a sudden, they don't want to eat, right?

Stephanie Mara 07:48

Yeah, yeah, it's heartbreaking. And what I'm really hearing is how young it starts. And it starts with the messages we're receiving at home, even from babysitters, from family, and then it moves into the messages that we're also receiving from the culture as well, because we have all this stigma around how you're supposed to look, and even stigma around certain careers that maybe you want to go into, you have to have a certain body shape to go into that career.

Sera Lavelle 08:17

Yeah. Well, you know, there's a study of young girls and it's a very simple study that I'm paraphrasing, but they asked them to draw pictures of successful women, what they think successful women look like and successful men. And even at a very young age, they'll tend to draw successful women as very thin, and successful men at all different shapes and sizes. Right? And so this is there's this idea, like, even for our careers, we have to be this certain weight and size. Right? And when did it become this way?

Stephanie Mara 08:49

Yeah, it's been a, you know, centuries of, you know, it's interesting to also look up the kind of norms that have been set, decade after decade, which brings in this kind of like, different perspective of like, oh, wow, we can't ever, like get it, quote, unquote, right? You know, that it's like, oh, every decade like the fitness culture, diet culture, clothing culture is deciding for us what is the ideal body shape.

Sera Lavelle 09:21

What is the ideal body shape, and I don't want to make it sound like it's just girls, or women.

Stephanie Mara 09:26

Yeah it's everybody.

Sera Lavelle 09:27

But it has historically been more pressure. You know, you think about it in a historical context. You think about the fact that for a long time, women weren't able to work and support themselves, right. So the only way, like our survival in some ways has been linked to being attractive and marriable, right. So you think about this, even mothers with good intentions, would want to teach their children to be, you know, thin and desirable and what they think is going to be accepted as attractive because they want to ensure their child's survival, right? Or countries where the only form of income is land and women aren't legally allowed to own land. So I don't think historically anybody's had bad intentions. However, this focus on looks, I mean, it's so ingrained in, you know, not just now but I mean, centuries back. Right? And to try to overcome that is, you know, it's a it's a powerful force.

Stephanie Mara 10:20

So what have you found working with individuals around this, stepping back into body trust and also trusting their hunger and their fullness cues? And saying, like, Oh, I am hungry, just because I just ate 20 minutes ago, I can eat again. And just because I feel satiety that like, I don't have to push past this, what else you have found really has supported someone in stepping back into that body trust.

Sera Lavelle 10:44

Yeah. I mean, there's so many things, right. I mean, a lot of times as a psychologist, you're gonna examine like, you know, the messages that they're given and really try to do that reprogramming. Right? Think about it. Okay. Well, do you agree with what your parents were teaching you? Right? Sometimes I'll do visualizations about like re-parenting, right? And have you picture yourself as a mother to a small child. Or, like you do visualization on this idealized mother. What would she have told you around food, right? Another thing is, I am a big fan of The Hunger Scale for somebody who has like really struggles with awareness and doesn't trust their body. Because, you know, they'll start out saying, Oh, my body won't tell me when I'm full. And then you'll ask them, you know, to I'm not very big into tracking, however, I will ask people to reflect upon like, say, hey, you know what, why don't you throughout the week, why don't you notice and like, look at the scale, and tell me and try to pay attention the next time that you feel too full, and see where you are in the scale? Right? And a lot of times like that awareness will be like, Oh, I actually did notice that I was too full and uncomfortable.

Stephanie Mara 11:49

Yeah.

Sera Lavelle 11:50

And you know, and when you tell yourself, I can't eat, because I'm dieting, I can't eat because I'm dieting, you forget that actually your body's telling you something. And the more awareness you can bring to somebody, the more they do start to trust their bodies, because our bodies will tell us when we're hungry, and our bodies will tell us when we're full.

Stephanie Mara 12:06

Yeah. And just to kind of put a framework around that, I find that when someone has been maybe calorie counting, for example, for a really long time, that actually rating your hunger and fullness cues on a scale from 1 to 10 can be a baby step. You're still getting to use the numbers, but you're slowly moving away from relying on the calorie counting and more using the numbers to support you and facilitate you in tuning back into your body.

Sera Lavelle 12:35

Yes, I think there's a big difference between literally counting and having a mindful awareness of what you eat. Right. I mean, all the research would say that actually counting calories, you know, especially for people with eating disorders can really backfire.

Stephanie Mara 12:53

Yeah.

Sera Lavelle 12:53

And it can be really triggering, right? So how do you balance that? You don't want people like some people are going to be in such denial, that they don't want to look at it at all. But you don't want them to do the opposite, right? Where they're like literally tracking every little meal and then getting into some kind of a shame spiral.

Stephanie Mara 13:09

Yeah. And then ultimately, what happens when someone is using an external tool to track their eating, it further breaks that trust in the body. That it's like, oh, I can't listen to you. I need to listen to this external thing over myself.

Sera Lavelle 13:25

Absolutely. Absolutely. Right, any external tool, whether it's an app, or it's a person who's creating meal plan for you, they don't know what your body's craving at that time. Right? I mean, a general meal plan, which would say, you know, it's better, you know, maybe like, let's create some goals together. But something specific, like our bodies change, our needs change, our wants and desires change.

Stephanie Mara 13:49

Yeah. I know you also teach individuals around kind of like how toxic, like dieting can be to the body and how it breaks that trust and so I would love for you to expand on that. Because right now, as this is being recorded, we're in January. And so we're in this time of year, that diet ads are just everywhere.

Sera Lavelle 14:10

Everywhere!

Stephanie Mara 14:11

And they can feel very alluring, especially if you have one of those moments where it's just like, Oh, maybe if I could just change my body, then I'll get what I'm looking for. And so I think it could be a great reminder at this time of year, to even start talking about why it won't give you what you're looking for.

Sera Lavelle 14:28

No, exactly. It's not gonna give you love. It's not going to give you acceptance, it's not going to give you these things. And also, you know, on that note, it's like, sometimes psychologically, people almost will do this thing where it's like, they'll make these rules for themselves. I can't get that job interview until I lose this weight. And so by eating like more than their body needs, it's actually way of pushing that off. But the reason I do think that counting calories, counting points, whatever it is that you're counting is systematically taking you away from trusting your body. Because similarly to when your child and your parents are telling you have to clean your plate, or you can't be hungry, because you just ate. Think about this, like, say you have, you know, 1500 calories that you're going to eat that day or 2000 calories or whatever number it is that, that you decided.

Stephanie Mara 15:18

Yeah, that you've been told or that your brain has created, this is what I'm supposed to eat that is completely arbitrary that comes from somewhere.

Sera Lavelle 15:27

So I find two main problems with that kind of like calorie counting, point counting, whatever it is, like from a psychological perspective. So first of all, say, you know, your goal was this, um, 1800 calories, and you had 1500 calories, but you're actually pretty satiated. Of course, you're gonna stuff in those extra 300, right? Like, at the same time, if you eat your 1800, and you're still hungry, you're gonna deny it, right? So like that systematically teaching you away from it. The other problem I see is like people look at it as a calorie is just a calorie. And when you don't trust your body, and don't ask your body what it needs, you might just think, well, I like candy bars, more than I like, you know, proteins and vegetables and grains and things that are nourishing. So you could literally just eat four candy bars in that day. And you'd be walking around starving. Right? And thinking, what's wrong with me? I had my 2000 calories today. Like, why am I so hungry? With like, no awareness of it.

Stephanie Mara 16:31

Yeah, yeah. And just for those who are listening, we're throwing out random numbers that also don't mean anything.

Sera Lavelle 16:38

Yes, thank you for clarifying that. Right? I was intentionally trying to choose examples that were larger, not to like assume that it was smaller, but it's like talking about numbers at all is triggering.

Stephanie Mara 16:48

Right. Yeah. And so I just wanted to make that note that even if hearing these numbers, it's like, oh, wait, is that what I'm supposed to be doing? It's like, no no, we're just throwing it out as an example. As we're talking about this, you get to notice, like, how do you feel in your body even hearing numbers? Because oftentimes, diet culture can leave such a sense of a lack of safety in the body of I can't trust myself.

Sera Lavelle 17:11

Absolutely, absolutely. And then I hear my patients say all the time, well, my hunger is just too big. Right? There's something wrong with my level of hunger. That's why I binge. Right?

Stephanie Mara 17:23

Yeah. And it's even that mentality of this is too big that even sets someone up to end up often, I'll phrase this as like, potentially eating more than their body is telling the feedback that it's telling you that it needs based off of, you're already telling yourself, you can't listen to your hunger cues, that leaves you feeling unsafe in your body, or leaves you feeling overwhelmed, or leaves you feeling disconnected, and then eating brings you back into your body. And so it becomes this cycle.

Sera Lavelle 18:00

Something I've really been thinking about this year, that even intuitive eating, if taken too literally like so there's such a strong link between perfectionism and eating disorders, right? One of the really interesting articles I came across this year is that people with eating disorders, they had these people like unrelated intentionally make mistakes. And people with eating disorders tended to blame themselves a lot more than the average person, right. And so people with eating disorders a lot of times, and I don't even like the term eating disorder, but you know, they do judge themselves. Even with intuitive eating and like body awareness you you want to be careful to like say, You know what, it also doesn't need to be perfectly intuitive. You know, you can't like cuz then you get like, they don't have patience, like, oh, no, I ate past 6 on the hunger scale, like, ya know there was a birthday party and I was celebrating, it's like, well, you know, what, like, you're allowed to do that sometimes, you know? And like, how do we allow this flexibility, with like, even this body awareness, even intuitive eating, even these things to like, say, you know, what, we can have some variation. It's more like that, if we find ourselves always going to food for things it's not meant to do, it's about like, mitigating that, as opposed to, hey, I really want to celebrate, I'm okay with eating a little too much today, or more than my body needs today.

Stephanie Mara 19:18

Yeah, I love how you're normalizing that, that that actually gets to be, you know, I also don't love the word normal, but if we were kind of defining normal eating, and I'm putting that in quotations, if we were kind of going to include that sometimes over eating is a part of normal eating it brings in so much spaciousness, that it's just like, it's not like you need to hit it perfectly every single time.

Sera Lavelle 19:44

Nothing has to be rigid. Even the 80/20 rule. I like the idea of it, right? Because it's like it allows for like, you know what, 1 out 5 times it could be like more than your body needs. But then if you take that too literally like, Oh no, what today it was 75/25.

Stephanie Mara 20:01

Yeah, yeah, it's such an evolving process. But it's not something that can be like, Oh, I'm gonna eat this particular food and this amount of food and these exact meals every single day, and that, ultimately even doing that, even if it works for you for a month, two months, three months, at some point, because the body is constantly changing, it's going to bring in different messages of, excuse me, I need something different now. And if we're not able to hear that cue as well, you know, that can also break that relationship with the body and its cues.

Sera Lavelle 20:32

Absolutely. Our body needs different things at all times. I think when people feel badly about things it's really about when they know that they did something for maladaptive reasons, right? Or like trying to heal something that can't be healed, or like that shouldn't be that you can't heal with food, right? So it's like, for instance, if you're gonna go to food for love, you know, you'll eat a little and think, Well, I don't I still don't feel love I must need more. Right? Oh, well, I still don't feel loved. Maybe I need more. And, you know, it's that like, it's like displaced fulfillment. Right?

Stephanie Mara 21:06

Yeah. Yeah. And also just bringing in of what we were just referencing of, it's that balance between, okay, when you do that, bringing in that, okay, that was okay, that I chose food to try to receive love. And oh, wait, I did it again. And oh, wait, I did it again. And I'm still not getting what I'm looking for. Sometimes you have to, like, do the pattern over and over again, to even realize you're not getting what you're looking for?

Sera Lavelle 21:32

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Like, you have to recognize a pattern. Right? Again, that rigidity, it's not like, Hey, I noticed this one thing, it's gonna be easy. It's like continuing to get back on the horse.

Stephanie Mara 21:45

Yeah, so you are about to come out with a new app. And I would love for you to talk about that more, because I think it's really interesting of the work that we're both in is we hold space for individuals at a certain amount of time, but then there's all this space in between, when we see them.

Sera Lavelle 22:01

That's my main thing. You know, it's, I have a lot of reasons for creating this app. But mainly it's I see my patients for 25 minutes a week, and I'm not there in the middle of the night. I'm not there in between the sessions. And then also, I'm a real person. You know, it's funny, um, when I started working remotely, I actually noticed my patients opened up more to me. Ya know, you don't always want to tell a real person, how you're eating when you're embarrassed about it. But the more a person seems virtual, in some ways, it's like this nice interplay between, you don't want to text your therapist 20 times in a week, you don't want to bother your friends with this, you know, it might be shameful, might be embarrassing, but it's available all the time. Right? And it's, and it's this idea that, you know, it's not going to judge you, right? So just talking about the app a little bit, it's automated as if you're talking to a real person, but it's not giving diet advice in any way. So it's based on three different concepts. Plan, which is just setting a mindful intention for the day. Motivate, like, Hey, I'm struggling in the moment. Um, could you help me with some mindfulness exercises, can we do some visualizations. And then three, the third is Meditate. And these are headspace quality recordings geared specifically towards better eating that helps people with body awareness. So the idea is that you can chat with Bea at any time all day, and get this help that you need in the moment. And it's not like, Hey, don't eat this. It's, hey, well, before you're about to eat this, let's just reflect for a minute and see if something more is going on. And then you also, there's the two parts, right, there's the chat. And then there's also this dashboard that you could start to identify patterns by yourself.

Stephanie Mara 23:42

Cool.

Sera Lavelle 23:42

So you could look and say, hey, you know, what, all the frowny faces, which are just moods, not not like...

Stephanie Mara 23:50

Not like good or bad. What was my mood in this moment.

Sera Lavelle 23:55

Yeah, exactly. The day that I wasn't feeling as good actually, those are the days that I fought with my girlfriend, you know, or, you know, actually the dates that I was really great, I did yoga, all those mornings. Right? So it's like, you're gradually learning more and more about yourself. And it's not meant to replace therapy, by any means. It's, it's an adjunct to it. Right? And my real hope, and what we're finding, you know, in our preliminary studies, is that, and it's consistent with the other research out there, is that apps don't take people away from therapy. Apps actually help people realize, you know, what, I do have something more going on, and it increases their likelihood that they'll go to therapy.

Stephanie Mara 24:34

Yeah, and what I'm really hearing is it's another tool and we you know, like tools can be supportive or sometimes not, but here is a tool to facilitate more awareness. What's really going on here? Are there actually any patterns and connections that I can actually start to create? And that change, I talk about this a lot in my work as well, change starts with awareness. You cannot change what you are not aware of.

Sera Lavelle 24:59

Exactly. Exactly. And also, I mean, all these apps are kind of are like, are kind of insulting, right? It's just going to give you all this diet advice, it's not like people are gonna be like, Oh, my God, really a cookie is more calories than an apple? I had no idea. Right? It's, it's this awareness, right. And almost every other app on the market really is about counting calories, and tracking food. And you know, there are definitely some that are better than others. But what I find interesting is they always advertise is, if you stick with this for two months, we'll show that you lost 20 pounds. Yet, the research will show about only 3% of people who start tracking in that way, using apps stay on for more than a week. So that's great. You're like, if you stay on this for two, two months, that you'll definitely lose weight if you're one of those lucky 3%.

Stephanie Mara 25:48

Yeah, and that even in addition to that, that if it is diet mentality that oh, 95% of them fail. So that also leaves a special 5%.

Sera Lavelle 26:03

Yeah, and then you feel like a failure, it's worse than if you never did it at all, right? So it's like, instead of advertising that, you know, this will help you lose weight, it should really be advertised as most people who try this will end up feeling like a failure.

Stephanie Mara 26:17

Which just continues to fuel that I can't trust my body. I can't commit to this. If I can't show up for this, oh, I can't stick to this diet. I'm a failure. That's another example of how I can't trust my body.

Sera Lavelle 26:31

Absolutely, absolutely. I can't trust my actions, I can't trust my body. I can't do this. I'm, I can't do anything right. And what happens when you feel like you can't do anything right, you're more likely to binge, you know, they find even with things like alcohol and drug abuse, it's actually the more you beat yourself up, the more likely you are to keep engaging in the behavior, right. Whereas beating yourself feels protective, as if it's going to stop you from doing something. But if you think you're a good person who can accomplish a lot and just made a mistake, you're going to go back to getting back on the horse. If you think you're failing, you can't do anything right, you mess up and you're like, Okay, I'm a failure, I might as well keep messing up.

Stephanie Mara 27:10

Yeah, what I hear in that is, is it's less actually about the action that's happening, and more about your response to it.

Sera Lavelle 27:16

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Stephanie Mara 27:18

That's I find a huge piece is missing when you know, we see we're bombarded with all these like fitness and diet ads is that sense of compassion over this isn't about your sense of willpower, or compliance, or being able to sticktuitiveness. That actually is about what really is going on deeper here. And that what are your intentions of wanting to do these things that actually is just guiding you towards ways that you want to feel that you're not feeling in your body or things that you want in your life that maybe aren't happening.

Sera Lavelle 27:50

Actually, it's interesting. As you're talking, I was just thinking, how when we conceptualize in terms of willpower, that's why we think then is equated to success, right? Because we just then assume that person has more willpower, right? When it's just not true. Right? If that were true, then you wouldn't see successful people in all shapes and sizes.

Stephanie Mara 28:11

Yeah, a few podcast episodes ago, we were talking about how there's 108 different factors that affects your body and its expression of its shape that is not in your control. There was like a study that came out. Like we're trying to make it so simple, that it's just like, oh, just do these things. And you can have control over your body. And like that's, we really have very little control over our body. Like if you even think about it right now, you're probably listening to this and you're not actively making your earbuds listen. You're not actively forcing your body to breathe, it is just happening.

Sera Lavelle 28:48

It's just happening. That's the thing. And we're not confused about drinking water, right? We're not like, Oh, I need to make sure I only drink this amount of water, at this time of day. You might say, I want to drink more water. But like we don't like try to limit it. We don't try to like change it in any way. We accept our body wants water when its thirsty. And that we will stop when its satiated.

Stephanie Mara 29:11

So if you feel like there was a message you wanted our listeners to take away of like, Hey, here's a baby step to start to step back into that body trust, what do you find is, because I like to break things down into those bite sized baby steps, what do you find is a baby step, a bite sized step that someone could take towards that body trust?

Sera Lavelle 29:32

I like to do an exercise. I mean, there's so many directions I could take.

Stephanie Mara 29:35

Oh, yeah.

Sera Lavelle 29:37

I do like this whole idea of like re-messaging. Right? And you know, when somebody is really struggling, I'll just say, you know, as a starting point, why don't you actually write down all the negative messaging you got as a child and rewrite it just as an additional as an additional exercise, right? Like the messages, You're not acceptable if you're not thin. Whether that was conveyed directly or indirectly, you rewrite that to, you could be happy at any size. And, you know, like, if you're getting the message that you can't trust your body, rewrite it that you can trust your body, right. And like, just as a first step, like really examining the messages where they came from, and see how you could change it as something positive for you, I think is just the first step in healing.

Stephanie Mara 30:21

Yeah, I love that. And that you start to shift the inner dialogue with, let's say, it's, you know, I like to identify the part that is also kind of maybe saying that, that let's say it's like an inner child that's like, No, I can't be acceptable in this body, that it's like, you get to be the parent, the friend, the teacher, the ally, that that inner child always needed. And tell them the messages, they have needed to hear that actually, I know that someone told you this at some point in time, and I'm going to give you a very different message. And if I have to tell you that every single day, I'm going to.

Sera Lavelle 30:57

Absolutely. Right. And then it's also, you know, the indirect messages are more powerful than the direct messages, right? Like, it's one thing for a parent to say, you know, I don't like your weight, right? But it's actually much worse, if the parent says nothing about your weight, but they're going around kind of like making fun of people's weights, especially if they're making fun of people's weights that are smaller than you. You hear that message loud and clearly, whether it said it directly or not.

Stephanie Mara 31:26

Yeah, I'm so glad you're bringing in this reminder. You know, I've heard that a lot with those that I've worked with as well, that actually it wasn't a message that they directly received, it was how their mom or their dad, constantly, were making comments on other people's bodies, and our young minds interpret that of oh, they're saying negative things about that body shape. So for me to make sure that I'm going to be accepted as part of this family unit, I can't be that body shape.

Sera Lavelle 31:55

Absolutely. Like other people's body or their own, right. I had a lot of patients who had very thin mothers, who would always call themselves fat, be like, Oh, I look fat in this dress. Oh, I look fat here. And then they look at their own bodies and be like, Wow, she's thinner than me. And she thinks she's fat. What does that mean I am? Right? These messages are heard loud and clearly.

Stephanie Mara 32:15

Yeah. Yeah, it goes so deep. There are just so many layers that, like you said, even really getting very curious about where this messaging is coming from, and how you have internalized and interpreted it. Because that has basically created the groundwork, the framework of how you are relating with your food and body currently.

Sera Lavelle 32:38

Exactly.

Stephanie Mara 32:40

Well, I feel like we could just talk forever, just as we started off of like, oh my gosh we could go in so many different directions and I want to leave time for you to also speak to how can individuals keep in touch with you and your work and this app, and you know, where they can find you on social media and you know, anything new that you have coming out.

Sera Lavelle 32:59

Thank you. I mean, I love connecting with people. So and I'm, I'm somebody who just connect with me directly. So you know, I love inviting people into our practice, learning how we practice. You know, we do specialize in eating disorders. But we also specialize in insomnia, anxiety, OCD, a number of things under the umbrella of mindfulness and hypnotherapy. And reaching out to me in my practice directly at sera@nyhealthhypnosis.com. And that's just S E R A at N Y healthhypnosis.com. Is a great way to reach me for my practice. If anybody's curious about the app, wants to connect, wants to collaborate in some way, it's sera@beabettereating.com. You can find these all on, I believe this podcast, and you can always connect with our social media, that will also be listed as well.

Stephanie Mara 33:43

Yeah, so I'm going to include all of your email addresses and the links to all of your social media. You put out great posts on Instagram, I follow them. And so I will put all of that in the show notes. And I just want to thank you for being here and having this important conversation and sharing your wisdom and that hopefully, we can have you come back in the future. And even as the app kind of like gets up and running, I would love to hear about how that's going. And so definitely keep us updated.

Sera Lavelle 34:10

I'd love it. Thank you so much. And I agree we could I could talk about this for hours. But we have to limit it to a certain time. So I'd love to come back sometime. Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate this.

Stephanie Mara 34:22

Yeah, thanks so much for being here and for everybody who's listening, thank you for tuning in this week and I will be in touch with you all very soon. Bye!

Keep in touch with Sera here:

Twitter: @healthhypnosis

Instagram: @nyhealthhypnosis, @beabettereating

LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/company/nyhealthhypnosis

Facebook: www.facebook.com/nyhealthhypnosis/

Website: https://www.nyhealthhypnosis.com/, https://beabettereating.com/

Email: sera@nyhealthhypnosis.com, sera@beabettereating.com