Questioning Societal Beauty Standards With The Power of Curiosity and Body Respect
Welcome to the Satiated Podcast where we explore physical and emotional hunger, satiation and healing your relationship with your food and body. I'm your host Stephanie Mara Fox, your Somatic Nutritional Counselor. Welcome back to this month long series on body image healing. Today's episode was recorded the day after the Met Gala. If you don't know what the Met Gala is, it is an annual fundraising gala held for the benefit of the Metropolitan Museum of Art's Costume Institute in Manhattan. Every year there is a theme and attendees are often famous actors and actresses that are dressed like they're the people from the Capitol in the Hunger Games. There was a lot of criticism from the body image healing community this year about having an event that puts women's bodies on display and everything they do to contort their bodies to fit the societal standard of beauty. For example, Kim Kardashian wore a dress that pulled her waist so tight it looked unnatural like her internal organs were being squished and harmed.
While there is nothing wrong with dressing up, what events like these continue to perpetuate is the message that women's bodies are on display and are something to be looked at, critiqued, or praised. I discuss this more today with Abbey Roberts, a master's level registered dietitian and exercise physiologist with a background in clinical nutrition therapy. Abbey works from a Health at Every Size (HAES) approach and specializes in size-inclusive nutrition therapy for disordered eating and eating disorders. We talk about the importance of curiosity when navigating diet culture and body image healing, the harmful effects of social media on body image, challenging beauty standards, diversifying the body shapes you're exposed to, and so much more.
As a reminder, I'm hosting the very first Befriending Your Body Image Challenges with Somatic Eating® Practices Workshop on Saturday, July 13th at 12:30 pm ET. This will be a two hour workshop where you will begin to explore the wisdom in your body image concerns to start to understand what your body may be trying to tell you by making you worry about how your body looks. To learn more, click HERE.
Now, Welcome Abbey! Well, thank you so much for being here and being a part of this series on body image and approaching our appearance in just a very more mindful, compassionate way. And I would first just want to get started in hearing a little bit more about your history and how you got into this work around supporting others in healing their relationship with their food in their body.
Abbey Roberts 03:14
Yeah, of course. And thank you for having me. I'm really excited to be on the podcast. So where do I start? This is something that I share. It's on my website, I have like my my story on Instagram. And I'm very open about like how I got into dietetics and became a dietitian. And then more specifically, like began working with eating disorders. And really like where it all started is probably back in high school where I was doing more of competitive sports like really wanting to run track competitively in college, and just started with like a club team. So it was very intense, very rigid around our workouts, a lot of comparisons that were being made between me and my other teammates. A lot of that was coming from like myself, like, you know, thinking like, oh, well, this girl has a six pack and so that must be why she's so much better than me and faster than me and I don't have that. So I must not be a real athlete and just kind of going through those very diet culture weight centric scenarios in my head. And that definitely followed me to college and perpetuated more of this negative body image, more struggles around food, I struggled a lot with orthorexia, which is really one that's praised more in our society, I would say so, for those that don't know orthorexia is more of this like hyper concern and sometimes like what we call obsession with like healthy foods and then being very scared to eat any foods that we deem unhealthy. And that in itself is also very disordered. I started doing bodybuilding competitions. And this was something where I was like, oh, like, I'm gonna get so much more fit and healthy by doing this. And I should be tracking my food and doing all of these things. And really, once I got into bodybuilding, that was kind of my rude awakening of oh, yeah, this is not something that I can do long term, realizing that I do not actually feel healthy at all, that I needed to gain weight that I missed, you know, my social life, and all of these things that I really just put on the back burner in the name of fitness, in the name of eating healthy. So that's where it led me to dietetics. I kind of stumbled it into thinking like, oh, I'm gonna learn how to eat healthy and eat, quote, unquote, right. And then I actually learned, you know, how health is so dynamic, and all of the determinants that go into that. I learned more about what health at every size is, intuitive eating, and it really just kind of felt like, you know, these floodgates open of all of this perspective and background. And I was like, oh, I can breathe, like there's some room here now. And so that's really what I take, like, with my clients, too, and just kind of opening that door to them as well. And saying, yeah, you know, diet culture is really hard. There's a lot of things when it comes to body image and food and movement, that it's hard to figure out like, well, what fits for me, what are the things that feel good for me? And so part of is just kind of helping clients to find that for themselves within all of the diet culture noise.
Stephanie Mara 06:37
Yeah, thanks for sharing all of that. You know, it's such a journey to heal relationship with food and body. And I know, with a lot of those that I work with just the expression of exhaustion of like, haven't I healed this yet? Like, gosh, I've been on this journey for so long. And so like, yeah, you can kind of say, like, hey, here's the story, here's how it all kind of played out, but that was like years and years of your life that you had to navigate of like figuring out, hey, this doesn't really feel quite right on how to relate to my body.
Abbey Roberts 07:11
Totally. And it's something that I really felt during that time. And I hear so many of my clients say too is like, I know what I need to do, I just need to do it. And it's kind of this also phenomenon of I'm the exception, like, other people should feel good with the foods that they eat and like feel good in their body, but like not me, right? Or like, I've tried everything, and I can't heal. And so it's also really helping clients realize that that feeling is very valid. And it's also one that's very common. And sometimes our thoughts can just be thoughts. Sometimes we can kind of rework those and go, hey, even though we don't maybe like our body, we still have really negative body image, foods maybe feels really scary, we can also still respect our body, we still deserve respect and non judgement, compassion. And so just kind of financing that wiggle room within that, too, can be so helpful in realizing like sometimes, yeah, we have a really negative thought. And it doesn't have to be fact, it doesn't have to be truth. But totally, that was something that was years of my life. And I didn't know the support that was out there. So I'm such a big advocate in therapy, working with a dietitian, having a weight inclusive, primary care physician, and just kind of building that support network. Because I found and I see it in my clients, how helpful that can be.
Stephanie Mara 08:37
Yeah, one moment that I wanted to come back to for a second that you mentioned in your story was the moment you realized that you had to gain weight. And I had that moment as well. I went through experiences of under eating a lot in my undergraduate years. And, you know, notice, like, oh, okay, I'm basically running off of coffee and adrenaline, like, after getting through, you know, a workout at the gym at 6am to fit it in before all of my classes. I could barely walk up a flight of stairs later in the afternoon and realize just how actually weak I felt in that body shape and size. And so I'm curious if you could say more of your experience of realizing, I don't think this is where my body is meant to be at.
Abbey Roberts 09:26
Very similar. I remember in college, I was a personal trainer, and that kind of perpetuated that, like, oh, I'm gonna do bodybuilding. Now that feels like the next step. I was doing an internship and classes and I didn't know that I had ADHD during that time in my life. I learned much later. And now I look back and I'm like, well, no wonder I always needed to be busy improving myself and all these things like, and part of that too was you know, I was drinking energy drinks and coffee constantly throughout the day and was still so exhausted. And part of fitness culture is this normalization of insane amounts of caffeine. And so I would think that that was something that again, like I had to do in order to be fit or healthy part of fitness culture. And then yeah, there was just one day where I was like, oh, I feel awful. Like, my anxiety is through the roof, I have no energy. Sitting in classes, I can't focus, my brain feels like it's everywhere, but whatever we're talking about. And for a while, it was, oh, I probably need more caffeine, oh, I should probably change the time I do my workout, rather than looking at what the actual root was. And so once I finally was honest with myself, I was like, I don't really see any other option at this point, like I kind of gotten to the place of, I'm tracking all of my food and when I go out, I'm so stressed about, you know, well, can I track my food? Is it going to hit my macros? And that didn't feel good anymore. And so I started questioning, is there something outside of this? Is it possible to not track your food and still be healthy? And then that led into body image of, can I gain weight and still be healthy? What is healthy? Is weight really actually part of health? Is it more of just correlation isn't causation? And really asking, like those questions was so helpful for finding that root. But yeah, it mainly just came down to this realization of, oh, I have no energy. That has to be because I can't sleep. I'm not eating enough. And my body just, it doesn't have enough nourishment. Like it needs more.
Stephanie Mara 11:50
Yeah. And I appreciate that what you're bringing in as a first baby step is sometimes just bringing in curiosity. Like, okay, I know that I've been relating to my body and its appearance in this one way, that hasn't really gotten me any closer to where I want to be with my relationship with my body. So what if it could be different? Just that curiosity of like, what is actually this, quote, unquote, thinner body isn't the healthy body, everyone tells me it should be.
Abbey Roberts 12:20
Yeah. And that's a really scary thought, too, because we've all been told. I mean, there's all these pictures right now of Kim Kardashian, Arianna Grande at the Met Gala, right. And they all have that really tight corset on and so we're kind of in this recycled era of diet culture, where it's like back to the 90s, early 2000s, where all these celebrities now are just extremely thin and doing more Photoshop and these tight corsets and these things, that is more so skewing this idea of, well, what is the beauty standard? What is health? Is thin equal healthy, and beauty? And so it's a lot of challenging these things that we've just been told and have believed for all of our lives. And that's scary to do. That is scary. But for sure, I think a word that I use a little too much with clients is curiosity. They always tell me like when they come back to session, like, oh, I heard your voice again, like saying like, be curious, not judgmental.
Stephanie Mara 13:26
I'm laughing because I do that way too much as well, let's get curious about that.
Abbey Roberts 13:30
And they're like, okay, but I get it. It's so true. It just allows you to figure out, okay, where is this coming from? Is this expectation I'm holding myself coming from something like diet culture? Is it coming from something I saw on social media? Is it something that I was told growing up? Is it something that I set for myself, kind of almost being able to like weed through those expectations, and then again, see what ones here are ones that like, actually make you feel good, what ones help you with healthy behaviors? And what ones maybe don't serve you anymore or just plain toxic?
Stephanie Mara 14:08
Yeah, that's such a great point of starting just to check out what of these thoughts or perspectives around my body feel nourishing, and what actually feels malnourished? Because oftentimes, it's like you were saying before, we just hear those thoughts of like, you should go on a diet and it's like, where did that come from? Something's telling me I should go on a diet. Maybe I should just believe that. And that's what I should do without kind of checking it out. Because it's such also the norm in our culture, that we should always be working on our body as like a project.
Abbey Roberts 14:42
Yes, totally. That or we should always be doing something productive, right? And so in that they typically mean like, you should be on a diet you should be working out. You shouldn't be doing X, Y and Z. And so something that I'll ask my clients is like, well, where is that word should come from, like, where did this idea that you shouldn't be doing these things? Did someone say that to you? Is that just feel like this unwritten rule? And what if, instead of the word should we just start asking ourselves, do I want to go on a diet? Like, why or why not? Do I want to do this HITT class at orange theory or whatever, why or why not? Again, like it goes back to the curiosity piece, and just seeing, you know, are there things within this that do genuinely interest you or make your body mind feel good? Or are there pieces of this that maybe don't, and we don't want to include, and that's also fine. Throughout all of that, though, I think something that I've gotten more passionate on and been learning more about is like this harm reduction piece. And I think this is something especially with this new wave of diet culture and ozempic is looking at like, okay, we have all of this messaging that we are bombarded with day in and day out. And part of it too, is, I don't know, if we can ever fully unlearn or escape diet culture, I think this is something that it's going to be prevalent in our lives. And it's more so this piece of like, when the triggers come up, how do we navigate those triggers and ease those? And, you know, are there parts of engaging in diet culture that do make you feel safe? Because now you're not, you know, dealing with fatphobic comments from a relative or friend or coworker or boss, whatever it may be, and how can you reduce the harm of like that diet, or how can reduce the harm of this weight loss intervention, because I'm not a weight loss focus dietitian, and I share that with all of my clients. But I also really recognize that anti fat bias is very prevalent in our society. And so if doing something along with protecting yourself against that anti fat bias is weight loss, I don't feel like it's my place as a provider to tell them they can or cannot do that. I think they have that body autonomy. And so it's honoring that. And then again, seeing, you know, what are all these pieces that are coming down? How do we fit them together for you?
Stephanie Mara 17:14
Thank you so much for bringing that in. Because I find a lot of people are so confused, that now they're feeling shame over wanting to lose weight, or wanting to even, like, workout or move their body in different ways and wanting to say, hey, you know what, I actually want to lift heavy weights or like whatever it might be. But that's not supportive either to feel shame around these impulses that you have that it's like, okay, can we get curious? What's the intention here? Can we also approach this from a place of that your self worth is not connected ever, to how your body shifts and changes and you're more than welcome to play with different ways of eating and different ways of moving and discover what works best for you. So I really appreciate you bringing that piece in because I find it's been really confusing for a lot of people.
Abbey Roberts 18:07
To like further that point, I think there's kind of these two camps that are coming up right now the one of be anti diet, like we hate diet culture fully against it. And then we love diet culture, like do all the diets and like, pick the one that you love and stick with it. And I think a lot more people are kind of falling in the middle somewhere. And that's really kind of what I help my clients with too. And harm reduction is like, yeah, maybe there is something that's really trendy right now in diet culture, like HIIT workouts or Tabata or whatever. And if that's something that you genuinely enjoy, that's okay for you to do that. And also know that that doesn't have to be the only form of movement that you do. Knowing that rest is still productive and necessary. And just yeah, kind of learning what this gray area is. But I don't think that the desire to diet is inherently bad. I think that it makes a whole lot of sense, given the society and culture that we live in. I think when it's been quote, bad is when the shame comes in. The guilt comes in and we feel like we're a bad person for wanting this thing or doing this thing.
Stephanie Mara 19:20
Yeah. And I also just love that you are normalizing that we all live in diet culture, it's not going anywhere, anytime soon, it's just going to continue to evolve. Like, my gosh, could I not have predicted ozempic. Like, oh, is that where we're going next? Okay, cool. So, you know, it's going to continue like ozempic is not the last. This is not the last foray into diet culture that we will experience or see it will evolve into something else. And so just to also continue to be aware of like, yeah, how am I interacting with myself? Where are these thoughts coming from? How am I being influenced by diet culture on a daily basis. Like you mentioned, I've also seen all the pictures of the Met Gala, and all of the people and their dresses and all the things and all the talk about that. And so that is diet culture right there in front of our face. And it's being kind of like, seen behind this look at these pretty dresses, but that is still diet culture right there that there is a bunch of people having to put their bodies on display in beautiful fabric, like way to go costume designers and dress designers that like created all of those things like so cool. And that it's so in front of our face all the time that we have to continue to be diligent and paying attention to where it pops up. And it just goes so under the radar.
Abbey Roberts 20:48
Totally. I made that reel today about Kim Kardashian and her outfit at the Met Gala. And I think something that's been really interesting and like chatting with people in the comments there and DMs that I'm receiving throughout the video is this idea that we've kind of been saying that Kim Kardashian has set the beauty standard for us. But then it's kind of more of this question of like, did she do that? Have we kind of been using her to set the beauty standard that she asked for this? It really kind of makes you go a little bit deeper in like, where did these beauty standards come from, from diet culture? Like who is studying these things? And does anyone actually benefit from these unattainable standards? There was another picture that was going viral of Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce. And he was like in the Bahamas on a vacation. They were both in swimsuits. And people were saying that Travis Kelce, like this star football player had a dad bod. And I'm like, okay, first of all, why do we need to keep coming up with names to like, describe bodies in derogatory ways. And this is an athlete like this isn't athletic body, like, this is what it looks like. It doesn't have to have, you know, 12 pack abs or shredded biceps like, it's also a body, right? And so creating this conversation around to like, even these pop stars, top athletes, models, like they're not even able to reach these beauty standards. And yet, we're looking to them to set them and it's just kind of this like, perpetuated cycle of what is going on within diet culture and beauty.
Stephanie Mara 22:26
Yeah, it kind of makes me think of like the chicken or the egg and totally like, did it actually come from them? Or are they also feeling the pressure to perpetuate something, and then just the cycle keeps continuing over and over again. And because there's so much in front of the public eye, and then we're watching that and feeling the pressure ourselves, if that's the way I'm supposed to look, no one wins, and the grass is always greener on the other side, there is no one that ultimately feels like they can be at peace with their bodies. And just coming into this like relationship with body and appearance, like what have you found, be supportive for yourself, for those you work with, in starting to maybe come into deeper relationship with that relationship, because it is one that is constantly evolving, just like any relationship we're ever in, it's never going to be this static thing that like, you fall in love with your body, and then you're going to be in love with your body every day, 365 days a year for the rest of your life.
Abbey Roberts 23:27
Right? Totally, I think there's a few things that come up, the first one that just kind of came to my mind is the concept of body positivity. I think that that is one where the roots of body positivity were from black women, I believe in the 60s, starting to kind of revolutionize and take back the word fat and their bodies and the stories that have kind of been created about their bodies throughout the centuries. And then of course, social media came on the scene, and everyone kind of has their own idea of what body positivity is. And so we've been seeing a lot more thin, straight sized white cis women using the hashtag body positivity and doing a lot, which is fine, but it also kind of furthers the beauty ideals of like, you can only feel positive in your body if you look like us. And I say this too as the cis white straight size woman, I say this more so to share that body positivity it isn't just for one body, but it can be easier to obtain or retain body positivity if you reside in a certain body. So a lot of that comes in from just the messy roots of diet culture. So coming out of that it's this question of like, well, if I don't feel positive about my body, what does that mean for me, right? Does that mean that I just like have shitty body image like, what do I do from this? So it's introducing more body neutrality and acceptance with clients and even something that like I did with myself, it's knowing that I don't always have to feel super negative about my body, but I don't have to love it either if that also doesn't feel attainable, I can find kind of, again, that gray area. Are there ways that I can respect my body? Does body respect for me look like, eating enough? Whatever that might mean for me and kind of exploring that. Is it enjoying fun foods? Is it wearing clothes that fit my body at its current size and are comfortable? Is it moving my body? Is it getting rest? Is it doing social things with friends, and that fills my cup? So body respect is not a one size fits all. And it's kind of exploring that being curious with that, and how that is for you, I think is like the number one thing. I think outside of that, it's you know, unfollowing accounts on social media that you're constantly comparing yourself to, or at least muting them. It's the accounts that are maybe sharing a lot of very weight centric diet culture focus type messaging. So like a lot of the what I eat in a day type videos where they do a body check in the beginning, and then show you their whole day of eating, those are really harmful, not only because they're showing you their body, where it can kind of be this idea of like, oh, if I eat like them, or workout with them, I'll look like that. But then it's also like, we don't know, if we're seeing the full picture of their diet, what they're eating may not be right for you in amounts or types of food. So it's kind of questioning a little bit more what we see in the media. But it's also you know, knowing that it's okay to kind of grieve your past body or even grieve the idea that diet culture was selling you that you can reach the ideal body, or that just all of the lies that you've been sold through diet culture and grieving that. So sometimes walking my clients even through like those steps of grief, those five stages, and like knowing that this is expected, this is normal, and kind of looking at like, what is your body story? What is the first memory you have of your body? Realizing maybe your body is different than someone else's? How did that impact you? So needless to say, it's a lot of going to the root of it, it's questioning things. It's knowing that things that we see in the media, we need to take with a grain of salt, whether that's Photoshop, whether that's like clips of a certain video and not seeing the full picture. But yeah, I think that is kind of some of the most helpful things within improving body image is just knowing that it is not one size fits all, it is dynamic. And it is okay, if you do not love your body 24/7.
Stephanie Mara 27:55
Yes, I completely agree with all of the pieces that you just named that, I find that again, body positivity started with such a fantastic intention. And it's still very important. And it has been co opted a little bit, or a lot a bit. And so now it's, you know, I find a lot of people are feeling this pressure, that they have to love their body, and they have to love their body all the time. They don't feel like that's possible with where they're at. And so I agree with you that can we just start with body neutrality and body respect. And I have found that even on my own journey, just starting also with body neutrality of like, I have a body. And I want to take the best care of this body, because it's the only one that I'm gonna get that I can possibly take. And then kind of the moments of love, the moments of fascination, the moments of gratefulness, those kind of built over time, just be like, wow look at what my body did for me today. But at first, just had to start with owning that I have a body. It's the only body I'm going to have. And so I might as well start building that relationship with it and treating it with the respect it deserves.
Abbey Roberts 29:11
Yeah, I think on top of that, too, it's also normalizing just normal body processes, right, like bloating. I think bloating is one that it's a big trigger for many and kind of going through the difference of okay, well is this expected bloating post meal or snack or drink? Is this bloating, where it's like something that we really do need to look into the foods that you're eating? Do you have an intolerance, an allergy and it's like this really firm, distended, painful bloat. It's kind of helping clients lower that expectation that their body should look the same throughout the entire length of the day. It's lowering the expectations that bodies quote unquote, shouldn't fold, roll, scar, stretch all these things that our bodies are meant to do and it's quite amazing that they do that too. And I also love what you said of like, yeah, looking at these things that your body does and kind of taking some of those notes of like, well, my body did something pretty freakin cool today. And I can kind of question that, I can admire that, and it's also okay to look at those days where maybe body image isn't feeling as positive or neutral and still kind of being curious with well, are there ways that I could still respect it? Are there still ways that I could find neutrality in it, or find something cool that my body does for me, like my legs for walking, for an arms for hugging, right? I think that one is one of the more like basic ones that we hear, but can still be really helpful.
Stephanie Mara 30:47
Yeah, you know, I'd like to correlate it with any relationship that we have in our life, that you're not on the same page with like all of your loved ones every single day, like sometimes your best people in your life, like, they piss you off, you don't want to be around them, you want to take space for them, you had an argument or a disagreement, and you needed to work to communicate and get back on the same page. Again, it's the same thing with our body, we're not going to be on the same page with our body every day, sometimes we're going to fight with our bodies, sometimes we're not going to be on the same page with it. But that commitment, just like in any friendship or intimate partnership that you're in, you feel that commitment of I'm going to work with this person to make sure that they stay a part of my life. It's like, okay, I'm not really having the best day with my body today, that's going to happen and can I feel that commitment that I'm going to strive to connect back with it.
Abbey Roberts 31:46
Totally. I think so often too on those days, where we kind of feel disconnected from our body or struggling with body image that can really feel like it's this huge step backwards, rather than recognizing like, this is also expected, right? Like, we're human, we go through so many different things throughout the day, or even looking at like our emotions, right? Like emotions don't just stay the same throughout the whole day, there could easily be something that comes up and pisses me off or makes me really anxious, or makes me sad, makes me excited. And all of those emotions can also affect how I'm experiencing my body. So it's also kind of connecting some of those emotions to how you're viewing your body. Like you said, like if you have a argument with your partner, right? Yeah, that might make you feel uncomfortable, angry, frustrated, and that might cause you to feel some sort of way about your body as well. So kind of taking that little inventory or notes of what's gone on throughout my day. Is there something that I might be thinking about, if not my body, what else might be going on? And sometimes that question alone can kind of open up that door to oh, yeah, maybe my body isn't the problem. Maybe the picture is much bigger than I was led to believe.
Stephanie Mara 33:03
Yeah, something I've been exploring with a lot of the females that I work with who have a menstrual cycle is also just identifying where are you at in your menstrual cycle, if it also is very consistent, because that is also going to change your experience of your body. And so if you know, hey, you know what, like you normalizing bloating, okay, your body holds on to more water when you were about to get your cycle, the menstrual cycle part of your phase. And so it's like, okay, this is where I'm at, like, knowing that this is how your body is going to express itself this week, and you just get to support your body the best you can. There's a lot of compassion in that of, I really appreciate you bringing in of like checking in of like, how's my sleep been? Have I had any arguments with anyone lately? What's the weather been doing? Has it been raining a lot? Like all the things that can affect our experience of our body, to take maybe the pressure off that it has to do with the body's appearance and it's how the body is processing all the things that we go through from day to day.
Abbey Roberts 34:10
For sure, for sure. I think another little line of defense that I always encourage clients to do is I've created a list of just different creators on social media, TikTok all the things where it's just more diverse bodies. Because I think so often, we're scrolling on social media and seeing Kim Kardashian, Arianna Grande, Emily Ratajkowski, and just kind of comparing ourselves to these people where not only do they have this, this ideal body but they also have so many resources available to them in order to attain that body, right? And then they're not even in that body. There's also Photoshop that we're seeing and all these things. So just seeing like real people on your timeline, just seeing people that are in larger fat bodies, seeing LGBTQIA+, seeing BIPOC folks, seeing just more than the straight sized white person, right? I think that that's something to where a lot of my clients who are not white cis, or in straight size bodies kind of feel like body neutrality, acceptance, or positivity almost isn't for them because it's not available to them. And I think that that feeling is so valid in the way that we talk about body positivity, but also just kind of showing them that, hey, can we just kind of like almost audit your Instagram? Can we look at some of these ways that it can be available to you and it might look different, but that's also okay. Because your lived experiences are so valid, and how can we adapt these things for you? But yeah, I think I think really kind of our theme here is just diet, culture is messy. There's so much along with it. And curiosity is the key.
Stephanie Mara 36:01
Yeah, yeah, I completely agree with all of that, you know, something that I'm exploring with a lot of people, just to your point, is getting curious about what are the images that I'm mostly seeing from day to day, like just kind of doing a survey of that, like when you're scrolling on social media, or flipping through magazines, or the TV shows you're watching or the movies that you're watching, every time you see the same body image over and over and over again, of course, when you're going to go look in the mirror now at your body's appearance your body's like, wait, this isn't what you've been showing me over and over and over again, why don't I look like all the images you've been showing me. And so just to also normalize so that when you look in the mirror, it's like, that's a body. I've been looking at all sorts of bodies, that's a body, that's a body, this is a different body, and just saying, yeah, this is just my body. And here's where my curves are, here's what my shape is, that it just brings in more of that body neutrality that we were talking about. And just starting to get curious about like, are you exposed to various different body shapes and sizes throughout your day and building that awareness can be sometimes important and surprising over like, wow, I am only seeing maybe one predominant body type from day to day.
Abbey Roberts 37:23
Yeah, I love that. I think when we think of mainstream media, TV, movies, it's really hard to think of like a fat character, a fat protagonist, almost every fat character is going to be cast as like the villain, right? So I think that that's something where it really also opens your eyes when you're watching some of these shows, especially ones from the 90s, early 2000s, like one I think of immediately is friends, like, I love friends. And then we have Monica where her like whole bit and joke is that she was fat when she was growing up. And so they're always making jokes about that. And it's like, no wonder, we have this idea that fat is bad, that is okay to make fun of fat people that if you're in a fat body, you must be less than or unhealthy and all these things. It makes so much sense to me like why people in my comment sections on Instagram get so mad at me when I say hey, fat is normal body, fat can still be healthy, because of all of this messaging that we're surrounded with. I think it was last year, two years ago, Pixar came out with like a short of a fat protagonist. And she's a dancer and like a ballerina. And this felt like, well finally we have something like this and also, where has this been all this time like this is kind of the bare minimum. So it makes so much sense when we're seeing all of these kinds of films and people talking about their weight and their diets on TV and I hate my body and they're in a thin body, that when we look in the mirror, it makes it really hard to recognize our body as a body and one that's acceptable.
Stephanie Mara 39:06
Yeah, I really hear in that of just how young this starts. Of even the books that I remember reading when I was little, and yeah, all the characters. I mean, even if you think of like Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory, you know, I remember reading that book, and it still perpetuates the message to a young child's mind that being bigger is bad.
Abbey Roberts 39:30
Totally. Oh, I've been watching Sex in the City, which I have never watched that show and I felt like I needed to. It's just so much in pop culture. So then watching that and the first two seasons were so painful for me to get through. Because it is so much of them talking about their bodies and needing to lose weight and they are very thin women. It's what the late 90s, early 2000s when that was filmed. Yeah, it just kind of goes back to that point of like these things start very young. And even like, growing up, maybe I wasn't watching the shows that my parents were watching, but I was hearing what they were saying on the TV, and then internalizing that, or even thinking about like your parents too, and how they talked about their bodies while you were growing up, that's also going to have an impact. So I think like, when we talk about body image, at first, it sounds like something that's really simple, like, oh, I just need to love my body more. But as we continue to talk about it, it's kind of oh, no, there's like a lot of stuff here, like this this is kind of a whole mess of things.
Stephanie Mara 40:39
Yeah, I was just feeling into that as well, of just how many layers we even explored today of body image that was actually quite to explore within ourselves of how did this kind of relationship with my body even begin? Just to see that this didn't start with you, like you are not the problem. Even the way you're relating with your body was something that was taught to you.
Abbey Roberts 41:06
100%, every client that I have, at some point, I ask them that question of what is the first memory you have with your body? And so often, no matter their identity, gender, it is, oh, I was around ages, like sometimes three years old. 10 was like their first memory of their body. And it is usually not a positive memory. And so exploring that too, of like, wow, like, why do you feel like that memory stuck with you? What was going on during that time? How were the adults in your life talking about their bodies? It starts to really connect all of those dots and just go, oh, yeah, like, this is deeper than me. This, this is something that's been going on for a long time.
Stephanie Mara 41:52
Yeah. So for anyone listening, who's trying to start to connect those dots for themselves, what's an initial kind of baby step that you would offer someone that wants to start to move in the direction of maybe not having such a maybe intense, hateful, spiteful relationship with their body that's filled with just like so much tension and tightness every time they tune into it? Where would you start someone?
Abbey Roberts 42:19
I would really start with, like the asking the questions piece. So one of the first pieces is asking, like, if not my body, what else might I be thinking about right now? Because I think that one can help us to just kind of start to look at, you know, the other pieces in our life that are going on, as we've been saying. And I think that that question can also help create some room between not liking our bodies and feeling like our body is the problem to starting to be more curious with yeah, what are these other factors in my life? And then I think the other kind of step along with that is feeling like questioning things doesn't feel super accessible, is also just starting, like the audit of Instagram, right? Because I think even subconsciously, when we're seeing different body sizes, weights and shapes that can really benefit us. It's going out in public and looking at the people around you and realizing, oh, like, not everyone has this Instagram model physique, right? Actually, most people are going to be, you know, sizes 16 to 18, right, that is like our average size for a woman in the US. And we don't see that on socials. So I think finding those other creators that are in larger fat bodies that maybe post like their clothing hauls, and show you like their body at different angles. They talk to you more about like, how they have developed more body neutrality or acceptance, which a lot of times can feel more tangible and accessible for people when their body looks similar to theirs. It's talking about their bodies in more dynamic ways than just, here's my body. I'm going to show you it now. Here's what I eat in a day. So I think those are kind of the two places to start.
Stephanie Mara 44:16
Yeah, I love all those and they're very doable. You know, it doesn't take a lot of I have to go buy this thing. Put my body in this environment. It's like, hey, let's just work with your immediate environment right now as it is and start to bring in some curiosity and some playfulness of like, where can we make some tweaks or start to reflect on your current relationship with your body and where that came from?
Abbey Roberts 44:41
Totally. Yeah, it is pretty wild too when you just go out in public or you're on like some kind of transit, you are at a sports event, you're at a concert, and you're just looking at the people around you. I think that that can be really healing and therapeutic in the sense of like, Oh, wow, the people that I'm seeing all look different. And I think that realization too, can be really helpful when you're viewing your body and going, oh, my body might not look like this person Instagrams. And that's also okay.
Stephanie Mara 45:15
Yeah. Well I so appreciate all of your wisdom. Thank you for sharing everything that you did today. I just love this conversation. And for anyone who's listening, how can they keep in touch with you and your work in the world?
Abbey Roberts 45:27
Yes. So I have a private practice. Our team is growing. We just brought another dietitian, my website is just my name, abbeyroberts-rd.com. But I think the places that I'm most active is like my Instagram, which is fork diet culture, a little play on words. And my community as well, the fork diet culture community, which is just more of a cheaper, accessible option for people that are wanting a non diet space, without triggering language, numbers, before and after photos, and getting more of those resources where you can improve body image, connect with more like minded people, explore body liberation, fat positivity, and have more like guest speakers in there as well, where their body doesn't look like mine, it might not look like yours, and kind of learning from them as well. So those are the main places and then we work with people all over the world, helping with nutrition, eating disorders, disordered eating, digestive issues, and really conversations like the one that we had today.
Stephanie Mara 46:32
Yeah, thank you for sharing all that. And I'll put all those links in the show notes. And I just appreciate your time and your expertise in this area. And, you know, thank you for all that you do to also put out on Instagram and on social media just to also put out a very different message into the world that may be the one we're bombarded with.
Abbey Roberts 46:52
Well, thank you. Thank you so much for all that you do and this platform, and I'm so grateful that I could be on the show. So thank you.
Stephanie Mara 47:00
Yeah, well to everyone listening. As always, thanks so much for tuning in. If you have any questions, reach out anytime and I will look forward to connecting with you all next week. Bye!
Keep in touch with Abbey here:
Website: https://www.abbeyroberts-rd.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/fork.diet.culture/
Contact: abbey@abbeyroberts-rd.com