People Pleasing is Feeding Your Emotional Eating. It's Time to Put Yourself First
Welcome to the Satiated Podcast where we explore physical and emotional hunger, satiation and healing your relationship with your food and body. I'm your host Stephanie Mara Fox, your somatic nutritional counselor. I'm looking forward to my conversation today with Suzanne Culberg. Suzanne is a Nope coach, speaker and author, who helps over-givers and people pleasers learn to say No to others in a way that feels good, so that they can say Yes to themselves. Through her signature online program Why W8? Suzanne has helped hundreds of women break the cycle of putting themselves last and instead build the confidence to set boundaries. Suzanne is a Certified NLP Practitioner has Certificates III and IV in Fitness, and is a Certified Sacred Depths Practitioner. Welcome Suzanne!
Suzanne Culberg 00:58
Thank you so much for having me, Stephanie.
Stephanie Mara 01:00
I'm so excited to connect with you today. And I would first just love to start with hearing a little bit more of your story, and how you got into this very important work.
Suzanne Culberg 01:11
I...where to start? I love it when people say tell me a bit and I'm like...[laughter] So my story actually starts back when I was four. And my parents, well particularly my mother, put me on my first diet to fit into the Flower Girl Dress For my sister's wedding. I honestly believe she was doing the best she could at the time. And that's what she thought was the right thing. So basically, we got fitted for dresses, and all my life I had seen my mom and sisters suck their bellies in. So when the dressmaker came along, I was like, that's what I do. And nobody was paying any attention to me because they were all flitting around hair and magazines and whatever. So when the dress came back, it didn't fit, like by far. And I know that if it was my daughter, I'd be like, Okay, let's get that taken out. But instead, my mom was like, Let's go on a diet. And that started many decades long yo yo dieting, which was physically difficult, emotionally crushing. And basically, I was on and off on a diet until I was 30. And then I was like, I can't do this to myself anymore. I've just had my second child, I was 150 kilos or 330 pounds, like physically unhealthy, but mentally and emotionally drained. And I was like, what I love with your podcast like, you know, healing the relationship with food, because like, I know what to eat. I know how to exercise like I believe we all know what to do on some level. But we just don't do it. So I went on this journey looking into why do I eat to fill the void? Why do I eat when I'm not hungry? If physical hunger isn't the problem, food isn't going to be the solution. Like you can't have enough of what you don't need or really actually want. And that started my journey with boundaries and basically saying no to others, so that I could say yes to myself, and not depleting myself all day and then filling up all night because I believe so many of us are over givers. And then we over consume in some way to make up for the fact that we've given and given and given and given and it was like why am I chronically saying yes to everybody else and not even checking in with whether I want to or not. And why am I so scared to say no like putting the people pleasing and putting myself aside and my needs aside for others. So that became the next part of the iteration of my journey. I actually did release weight. I don't say lose weight because I don't want to; anything I've lost in my life I want to find again keys, my wallet, my phone. But it wasn't the focus. So it really was the byproduct of of becoming more me and and yeah, healing that relationship with food and actually seeing food as nourishment and exercise not punishment for being not enough in some way.
Stephanie Mara 04:14
I really appreciate that what you are bringing in here is this connection between overconsumption and over giving. And I'd love for you to talk a little bit more about that because oftentimes when individuals I know come to me, there's this hyper focus on the food, I have to get this food thing figured out. And then as more awareness starts to come in, of, oh, actually my food behaviors are happening for a reason, because these other areas of my life are not being attended to.
Suzanne Culberg 04:52
Yes, yes. So I believe that over eating over consuming is a double pain and the there's the first pain which is what causes us to over eat and over consuming in the first place, which gets very little air time traditionally. And then the secondary is the result of that. So as a result of over eating, there's often excess weight or the result of often overspending is, you know, not much in the bank or you know, there's a result. And so much of our society focuses on that secondary thing. It's like, okay, how do we lose weight? How do we budget how do we constrict or restrain? And it actually, it all made sense for me last year, it's really random example, but I speak about metaphors. So in our house, this ceiling was leaking, like over the stairwell. So it wasn't terrible, because none of our stuff was being destroyed, but still, like it's not good. So we are renting the house that we're in currently. So I called the landlord to know that the ceiling is leaking. Like not to worry, I'll send somebody over my way. Great. So they sent somebody over, they fixed it up, I was like, sweet, and they re-carpeted, they painted the walls, like you're good to go. Then the next time it rained, the ceiling was leaking again. And as an owner, I have to be that tenant. So I called them again, and they're like, Oh, that's not good. We'll send the people back. Same deal. They fixed it. They're like it's all good, painted, re- carpeted. Off they go. The next time it rained, here it goes again. And I remember ringing my dad, and he's like, did they get somebody up on the roof? I'm like, Well, no, he's like, Well, how did they fix the ceiling? And I'm like, they went through the manhole. And he's like, but nobody actually looked for a loose tile. I was like, No, and I didn't know anything about roofs, like I this is why. And the reason this makes sense for me in terms of weight and over consuming is when we are looking at the number on the scale or the size of our clothes. And you know how we eat and exercise, that's the changing the carpet and painting the walls analogy. But then when the rain comes again, so we can do it for a while because I think the biggest frustration with myself with my yo yo dieting history, and I've lost and regained in excess of 500 kilograms, it's like 1000, it's like a ton, like half a ton in my life. And it was like, because I never addressed, I never got up and looked at the roof, and had a look at the tiles and the ceiling. So when the rains came, like the thoughts and the emotions that led to the eating, it just came back. And for so many of us, we are conditioned to just say yes, be the good girl. Like I'm not saying, be a bitch. But sometimes it's like, could you do this? And you don't even check in. And it's like, well, actually, no or not right now. Like, I'll be the kind of person in the past. someone's like, Suzanne, can you help me move house at 6am tomorrow? I'd be like I'm there. And now I'd be like, well, maybe at 12 o'clock on Saturday. And they'd be like, Oh, no, it needs to be 6am tomorrow, because like my lease is up or whatever. But their inability to have their organization is not my problem. And there's a really long journey to get to there. Because we feel really bad for people and we want to be loving and caring and kind. But then we're often over giving. And then we're overdrawn. So that's why I believe we stay up late and watch Netflix and eat chips. Because we that's the way that we receive. Eating is a form of receiving.
Stephanie Mara 08:19
Yeah, it's such a fine line to navigate, of really tuning in and starting to assess what do I actually want to be saying yes and no to. And it's such a fine line, because we're often taught to put everybody first to put everybody above ourselves. And that when healing your relationship with food, it's actually I need to put my air mask on first, like they say on a plane, because I can't actually be there for anybody else. If I don't put myself first and then like you were just referencing food can come in a little bit less because our own needs are being met first. Like a totally hear you that nighttime routine. I've talked with that about that nighttime routine with so many individuals I've worked with that it's they go go go go go putting everybody else first all day long. And then the evening is the one and only time that they are putting themselves first. And so all the things come in the food, the TV, the maybe certain drinks, and it's really pleasurable maybe in the moment to finally relax and put yourself first. And that can kind of shift and change of what would happen if you did that all day long in so many different areas of just slowing down and pausing and getting curious of do I actually want to be saying yes to this right now. Because if I say yes to this now, that might mean that I'm saying no to myself. I think that's a powerful thing to start getting curious about of if you say yes, what are you saying no to, if you say no to something, what are you saying yes to?
Suzanne Culberg 10:03
And a little exercise I always get my clients to do. I'm saying I've got a proper one here. But if you've got a piece of paper there, Stephanie or anyone listening, you just need a little square of paper and on one side, right, yes. And then turn over and on the other side, write No. And whenever anyone asks you for anything, you literally, if you hold up the Yes facing them, what is facing towards you? So and it's even like, my children are quite young. They're seven and nine. And I have my office as we're recording this, they've just gone to school, but sometimes they are home when I'm working. And outside my office door is literally a little sign that says yes or no. And if it's on No, then they can't interrupt me unless it's an emergency. And then we even had to have a discussion about what an emergency is. Because I remember the first time I set this all up, and I was like, Yes, I'm going to be able to do some work uninterrupted. And then in comes one of them, like it's an emergency, like, yes, guess what, I can fit 27 blueberries in my mouth. And I'm like, we have a different definition of what an emergency is. But like when we say yes to others, like when we're we've planned to go for a walk or do a yoga session, or, you know, even do a meditation or some journaling, like I know, a lot of my clients, I journal with them. And my own journaling journey is also quite tumultuous. But you know, Mom, can you just, and when I say yes, and go and do that, it's me saying no to myself. And there are times when, you know, quality time with my family, like we're planning to do this thing. Yes. But then there's quantity time when I'm sitting there kind of resentful, because I wanted to be doing this other thing. So having those discussions that they can start quite young, and knowing that, you know, that's building the relationship. Like it's funny when I first started going to the gym, and I put my kids in the play station and I saw their little sad faces. Oh the guilt was so bad. I almost I almost pulled them out and went home. But it wasn't long before they actually enjoyed it. And then it was funny, through the pandemic, with the lock downs and everything, they'd be like, Oh, Mommy needs to go to the gym. Because they know that, like when I do that and feel better in myself, I'm much more present and with them, as opposed to the crankiness you get where you are saying yes, when really you don't want to.
Stephanie Mara 12:20
So in your experience of teaching, those that you work with, around this identification of okay, is this a yes? Is this a no? What have you found around working with others of why it feels so difficult to say yes to ourselves?
Suzanne Culberg 12:35
I think so many of us feel selfish. And you know, we've been conditioned that, you know, putting yourself first is selfish. And, and I love the example you gave earlier about the oxygen masks on the plane, because the airplane totally has it going on. Like if you pass out, then you're no good to anyone. And then we think oh well, I will just just this once or, you know, it won't hurt or, you know, we've been conditioned that others first, yourself last. And then we don't realize that we're actually modeling to others. Like, I remember, there was a quote, I can't remember exactly, but it was like you, you teach others how to treat you or something like that. And I was like, wow, that is that is so true. Because I remember growing up, I'm the youngest of four. And like, I love my family dearly, but I didn't actually really want to be a mom. Like, for a long time. My husband and I were together for 10, 11 years before we had children. And the reason was because I thought once you became a mum, your life was kind of over like that. Like as in, that's all you were. Because my what I was modeled growing up was mum, she did everything for everyone all the time, she had no friends, no hobbies, like I loved her dearly. But I was like, once you become a mom, your life kind of sucks. And then it wasn't until I really realized that I can choose the kind of mum that I want to be. And when I put myself first and I say to the children, like you know, like I do meditation daily, I call it my relaxing time. They're welcome to come and join me or they can play the iPad or play outside or whatever. But that is my time. And they really do honor and respect that and sometimes they ask for their own things or their own time. And I just really appreciate that. Because when you have really good boundaries and you're surrounded by people with boundaries, it's not offensive or rude to say actually, I just need five minutes. Oh, okay, cool. Rather than pushing and forcing and you can sense when somebody wants to be there versus that feeling obligated. And I think you know, in the beginning it's really challenging because you've always been the yes person. It's scary to say no or not now, or actually you might not even know what your needs are. That's another thing so many of us don't even know what our needs are because we push it down like as you said we push it down all day. And in the evening, it's like Oh finally and everything comes out the chips the TV, this staying up too late. And the back of your mind the guilt as you say, I'll start again tomorrow or Monday, the universal day to change your life. But what happens if you did say yes to yourself during the day in small ways? Like what do I need right now? I need to sit in the sun for five minutes, and catch my breath. Oh, how magical would that be? As opposed to oh, now just do it later and push and push and push all day.
Stephanie Mara 15:20
Yeah, I even love that example of how small it can be. Because I often find that when needs haven't been addressed for so long, they can feel so big. And so it's kind of breaking it down into this very bite sized piece of what do I just need right now? Yeah, sitting outside and just soaking in the sun. That sounds really relaxing just right in this moment. And it's slowly starting to build up those check ins, and starting to feel like your emotional and physical needs are being met more and more throughout a day. So that it feels a little bit more manageable to attend to. Have you found that as well?
Suzanne Culberg 16:04
100% Because as you said, when we don't know what our needs are, we're not used to addressing them. But a lot of the clients when I first started working with them, like what do you want? They're floored usually because they're not used to the question. But then they'll go to something like a week in the Maldives with a pool boy and someone cooking all my food and and, and the thing is, why doesn't that work? Because that's aftercare. Like how many of us go on vacation, so drained, and then we come back and so many of my clients say I don't have any issues with food when I'm on vacation, Suzanne. I can eat well, I can nourish my body. And then I come back, and not even in the door, and I'm already planning my binge or I'm already like, you know, it's like, it's the energy of the force that we have when we're home where we deny our needs. Like if you're on vacation, you're like, I'm gonna sit in the sun for five minutes you do that. But when you're at home, you're like, oh, no, I've got to write this email, I've got to send this blog, I've got to reply to this person. And email is one of my pet peeves because it's someone else's agenda, not mine. So one of the biggest signs of over giving, I believe, is being constantly attuned to notifications, because we're so responsive to everyone else, but not our own. Like if your body's saying actually have a glass of water on it, I've just got to do this. It's not even your own agenda. So I think it's the self care. It costs a lot of bad rap. But self care isn't just massages and sitting in the sun and reading a book. Self care is making the doctor's appointment that you really don't want to, self care is eating the nourishing food when you really craving something else, self care is going for the walk when you'd rather stay in bed. Like it's it's the challenging things. The a lot of the other stuff is aftercare where we've gotten too far to the point that we need these other things because we've actually broken down.
Stephanie Mara 17:56
Yeah, and I think what you're really pointing out here is when we go into vacation mode, we're often in a relaxation response. And that is the bodily state that we can make different choices in because our prefrontal cortex is online, we can actually remember what our choices are. In that moment, we're not in a fight or flight response, where as soon as you walk in the door, I would even start suggesting doing something different. Because home is actually the hardest place to make a change in because we automatically go into automatic pilot mode. And so it might even be putting your keys somewhere else. Or, you know, taking off your shoes in a different way. You know, just something super small in your home that feels different that takes you out of a habituation of this is what I do in this environment.
Suzanne Culberg 18:55
I love that. And it's so funny, because so many people dismiss the small things like how could that ever possibly because I think another thing we're conditioned is go hard or go home. You need to do it big! And the thing is, that's a one way ticket to dropping all the balls. And you know, I think so many of us the reason that we binge is because we tell ourselves, we're never going to do it again. Like we lie to ourselves on some level. Whereas if you're like actually, it's not waiting to Monday, it's just any other day and really face that and the power that you suggested of really small changes. And the other thing that you said that really resonated is when the fight and flight you know system is activated, what does eating do? Eating is a way that we tell ourselves that we're okay like if you were really activated if we were in the wild being chased by a tiger or something. You wouldn't stop to eat something you would literally be running. But the problem is we don't know our nervous system. We get a crappy email from our boss or somebody says something nasty to us or we start overthinking it. that triggers it. Why do we reach for food? Unconsciously that's like our way of self regulating that we're okay. We can do that with other things, as you said something small. Another one I encourage people to do is sense like smell like you literally wouldn't stop to smell the roses while you're running away. So having an essential oil or fragrance or a spray or a perfume, try that instead of reaching for the biscuits, because it's another way that we're just calming our nervous system and saying in this moment, I'm okay. Like, I might have to deal with that boss later. Or I've said no and the person's like, really unhappy with me and there's a whole thing over there. But in this very moment, I'm okay.
Stephanie Mara 20:40
Yeah. So I'm curious, how do you start to guide individuals on this path? Because it can feel really scary and daunting when you've been maybe a yes person your whole life and that food was coming in as a way to finally say yes to yourself, how do you start to teach individuals to say no more in their life, so that they can say yes to themselves in different ways? Besides food. Food gets to be on the list, I always like to normalize food always gets to be on your list. And there are other ways you can say yes to yourself as well.
Suzanne Culberg 21:16
100%. So the very first thing that I do in my in my Why W8 program actually sounds counterintuitive, because people are used to joining a program, and doing all the things like here's the list, and here's the procedure and here's like your own, they're like really good students. The very first week I actually don't give them anything, which freaks so many people out. But what I do do is we create space, because so many of us overdo it. And yes, people have so many things on our agenda, myself included. That it's like, actually, when are we going to do this work on you? Oh, yeah, I'll just fit it in like this, this, this is part of the thing. So very first thing I do with people is kind of like I say we do what I call a starting point assessment. And I'm like, so what else have you got going on? Besides this? And almost everybody says nothing, which I find fascinating. So I'm like okay, do you work? Yeah. How many hours of work per week? Oh I work 40 hours. Do you drive to work or you work from home? I drive to work. So how long are you in traffic? And we actually do an inventory of how much people have going on. And so whether you're in the program or not, this is something you could do. If you work, how many hours, travel. If you have children, how many hours do you spend prepping their lunch? Helping them with homework? Taking them to sports? Do you have any hobbies of your own that you actually do? Or do you have unlit passion projects kind of jumping up every shelf? But like, what what do you have on the go currently? And how much of that could you delegate? Like, you know, there's some things I delegate actually dropping my kids off to school to my husband now, because he's worked from home since the pandemic, that's for us been the gift in it. And I was like, why can't he drop them to school? That saves me an hour a day, five hours a week saved right there. Anyway, there's so many things like my first thing would be look at everything that you have currently. What of it could you delegate? And would you feel comfortable to? And what of it could you ditch because sometimes, you know, there's things that have been on our to do list for so long that it just is never gonna get done. So like cut the cord of that program that you've bought, that's gathering digital dust and guilting you every time you look at your desktop and go oh, there's that thing. Ditch. Or if you really do want to do the thing, do it because sometimes like responding to that email or or saying something to that person is taking up all this mental space, and it literally has takes you like five minutes to actually do. So create space for the change for the you know, take charge of the change make space for you. And the other thing is to make some time to do the things that you want to do like journaling or reading a book. Like I love when I work with clients and like what's your passion thing. I've got all these books that I never read. So like read a page a day. I couldn't do that like but making this time and then protecting it this sacred time for you is the very first step. And then notice, when other people ask how you go saying no and stretching that no muscle or and this is the biggest thing for myself included. When I don't want to do my own work. Like when I don't want to do my own journaling. I'll go find somebody to save. I'll be like, Oh, do you need help with your homework? Oh, would you like this? Oh, maybe I'll just clean up the pantry. Notice your own resistance to doing the stuff not just when other people are asking but when you are looking for ways out of doing the thing that you said you do.
Stephanie Mara 24:41
I love all of these. I think that that is so very important to first do just an assessment of your life. You might even notice that there are some areas that are more in balance than others. But it all starts with awareness. You can't change what you're not aware of. And so I can just see your participants being like, Wait, you're not giving me something, I can't just like step into my, you know, linear like, go go go energy and just like go do that thing. It's like, well, that's what got you here already is you're already doing too many things. You know, if we put a metaphor in here, like there's too much on your plate, and we actually have to make that meal of your life feel a little bit more manageable, and also start putting things on your plate, you really enjoy. It's like eating a meal, just because you think you should eat it. But it actually doesn't satisfy you.
Suzanne Culberg 25:38
Yes. Because you can control you can control how much you consume. But you can't control how much you digest. And I think so many of us, like over consuming, whether it be food or things or whatever. But then we're not fully digesting or appreciating the thing that we're doing. It's like, and it's funny, Why W8 isn't a prescription like it is a it's a program that runs through rounds. And I love how you spoke about linear, because I believe that linear is before and after. And why so many of us fall into this hole I failed. Because when we see life is linear. It's like that's the end, like the after is the end. And because I'm not there yet, whereas life is cyclical. Like we have seasons. And so with the program, we start, like I artificially make it a spring because we're all starting together. But it's honoring the season that you're in. And you can be in season different seasons in different parts of your your own life personally, relationship, business health, it's tracking back in and then realizing when we see a season model, no one, there's no before and after. We're just in a different season to someone else. So we might be in a winter. And they're in a summer. So no one's ever ahead or behind. We're just where we are. And I think what's really powerful about that is every season has a you guys would call it a fall, we'd call an autumn, a time to harvest. And there's no need to fear the winter, because in the linear model before and after, if you haven't got there yet, if you haven't reached a goal, that's it, fail, the end. Whereas in this round, I was hoping I would accomplish this. I haven't quite got there yet. But these are the things that I have had. Because the other thing that comes up, you know, in true transformation, it doesn't happen in a vacuum. It's why I've always been irritated by shows like The Biggest Loser, because they go into a vacuum where they have no, they don't have to work, they don't have responsibilities of family and caring. And then they take them out of that and put them back in their real life. And say, like, just do it all pick all these things back up. And it's kind of like so in the in the last round of Why W8, we had some people who were really down on themselves at the end, like I didn't achieve the things. I was like, okay, so I made this checklist. How many of you, you know, lost a job, moved house, got covid, cared for somebody with covid, had a health thing. And we had this, I think it ended up being like 20 things on there. And the people who were really down on themselves, like I haven't reached where I thought, often had, you know, eight to 12 things on this list. I was like, did you expect any of this to happen? Like no, because that's the other thing too my program is called Why W8 because what are we waiting for? So often we're like when the kids are older I'll look after me, or when I get that new job or when I've moved house, but there's always going to be something else. So it's like looking at, yeah, I may not have achieved this particular milestone, but I have achieved all these other things. And sometimes the mental and emotional release of like, letting go of a lot of stuff that we don't actually need to do is so much more powerful metaphysical result.
Stephanie Mara 28:38
It's such a beautiful reframe, of taking yourself out of diet culture mentality of I have to get at this point at this time. It's very that like, kind of masculine energy of like, just like go go go, let's just like make this happen. Where what I hear you kind of talking about, it's a little bit more of that gentle. And I say this in masculine energy and feminine energy, not in regards of like gender, but more in regards of the energy that we like, come at things. And I hear you with the change of the seasons, nature is a very feminine energy thing. And so it's kind of approaching it as Okay, can I flow with myself in these phases that I'm in throughout the year, and that just because maybe externally it's summer, you might be in a winter phase in your relationship with your food in your body. And just really getting curious, even if you started to label your phases as times of the year and saying this is just where I'm at right now. I hear just so much compassion and acceptance and it's okay to be just right here and something will shift and change when it's ready to.
Suzanne Culberg 29:58
Yes. And I think that's the thing because Why W8 is a 10 week program, I take us through all of the seasons in that time, like artificially, people will often come back. And then they would have set themselves a standard, like last round, these are all things I achieved. And it's very capitalistic that every round we improve, and I think that's a society thing that we need to let go. Because, what does improve even mean, and what is like this, it's funny, bigger always means better, or because I've gone this far, I need to go this far. And it's like, actually, in nature, like sometimes we just have a standing pattern, or sometimes we deliberately will burn something down, like, especially indigenous tribes, in order, like prune in order to grow. And it's like, to have the space to be held in that and to have a community where you can discuss that. And to sit with the sometimes disappointment or like, this is how I thought this would go. But then in the hindsight, we can see actually, and now the thing is even better. Like if I look at my own life, and journey and weight and moving around, and all the things I've done, people like oh, like if you knew then what you knew now, and I was like, Yeah, but this is been part of who I am, like I'm always becoming. So I think when we look at, you know, seasonally, and you know, sometimes there is like a bushfire or sometimes there is a drought, sometimes there's these unexpected things, it allows us to take a lot of the pressure off of always having to be improving every quarter is going to be better than the last one and you know, and that's you, as you said, the very masculine energy of divorcing yourself with the emotions and more more more. And it's like to what end. And then like, once you've achieved this goal, there's always going to be another one. So it's like celebrating every single step and not just a result, and really getting into the routine of celebrating. So somebody started this round, which I'm loving, like today I appreciate, and just a picture or a word or like I had a medical appointment last week, I got ridiculously lost. I have no sense of direction. Anyway, I ended up, its funny, I could have got there on the bus at 9:20 or 9:00. And I was like, well, I'll just go 9:00 in case I get lost. So I must have known. Ended up in this bushwalk I was like, I really hope that I'm actually heading to where I'm not not about to get kidnapped here. It was beautiful. I saw a waterfall, I took some photos. And I was like that actually that half an hour was like I was a little bit worried about getting there on time. But it was just so nice. Rather than just sitting there in the doctor's office for half an hour like going through all the overthinking of what possibly could be happening. So I think, you know, letting yourself be present in the moment, rather than caught up into like, our life is a series of achievements and boxes that we have to take.
Stephanie Mara 32:46
Yeah, and I really appreciate that you brought in that activity with your participants of actually assessing well, what else was going on in your life while you were going through this. And I think that can be like we have this same expectation for ourselves, regardless of what's going on in our life. And, oh, that kind of needs to change of, okay, this is just what's possible for my body, for my nervous system, for what else is going on in my life that I can navigate. And that is going to change from season to season, depending upon what's just capable. And when you feel more regulated or less regulated that it's, oh, well, let's look at all of these other things that were going on in your life. And that when you look at all you achieved, with all the things that were going on in your life, that actually becomes a pretty big achievement.
Suzanne Culberg 33:41
Yeah, because what happens I think Stephanie is so many of us just check out when life gets hard. We're like, Okay, we just check out of whatever it is we're doing entirely and go back to the, you know, safety and getting our minimum needs met and then go and put it off and go okay, I'll do next round, or I'll do next time. And it's like it's staying in the room. One of the things we have hashtag stay in the room. Because it's like, yeah, I have all this stuff going on. I'm not going to add more to my plate by forcing. But I'm just going to be like this is the the trajectory or the the side quest that I'm on at the moment. But I'm still here turning up in the smallest way for me. And the small things as you said, putting your keys somewhere else sitting outside for five minutes. They become the big things rather than us. I think this is where the go hard or go home mentality comes from, which is like leading to binging. It's like everything's too hard right now. So I'm going to quit on myself and go and eat as opposed to everything's really hard right now. And I'm just going to take the very smallest step that I can today and that might be having a glass of water sitting in the sun saying no to someone rather than forcing myself to go flood myself at the gym or something.
Stephanie Mara 34:55
Yeah. So I really love to break things down into baby steps for individuals, so the baby step, even before everything that we're talking about is how does someone remember to put themselves first. And I'm curious what you have found or the guidance you have given to even have someone remember to make a different decision to put themselves first.
Suzanne Culberg 35:17
So the very first thing that I do with people is, you know, making time as in looking, you know, as I said, and the next thing is, we I call them pennies. Because a penny compounded over time becomes a big amount. So what is the very smallest thing that you can do towards the habit you want to create, say, for example, you've got an exercise goal. My penny for my exercise, and people laugh at it, I don't often share it publicly, is my shoes are on and I walk to my mailbox and people are like Oh, my gosh, you must have a long drive. No, it's 12 steps to my mailbox. Because once I have my shoes on, and I'm out the door, I usually keep going. But some days I just make it to the mailbox. And that's it. Because so often we go Oh, okay. And people say, Oh, I'm gonna do 10 minutes, I'm gonna do 20 minutes. That isn't a penny people. It needs to be so small. It could be I remember, one client I worked with, she wanted to do the stretches from the physio she never did them. I said, I was just curious, like, what why don't you do them, she's like, it's really hard to get to the floor. Like she's in a lot of physical pain. So her penny is to get on the floor. And she celebrates every day, "I sat on the floor today!" And we're like, yeah!!! Find the person that you can celebrate your thing with that's not going to look at you sideways and give you that nascent eyeroll. But make your things so small, like my journaling penny is I write the date. Like, that's it. I would ideally like to write a couple of pages like I do, like morning pages from Julia Cameron, I very rarely write three. But like, whatever it is that you're trying to change, make the things so small that like, if it's 10 o'clock at night, and you're getting into bed, you're like, Oh, I haven't done my journaling, you can get out of bed, write the date and get back in. Because how you can't like the idea isn't, well, I'm never going to change my life by doing this thing. But you're opening the window to compound by making it really, really small. So I pick no more than four habits. Because a lot of times when I say pennies, people try to do 16 things. No. So I have a movement one, a food one, a mindset one, and then a miscellaneous. So my current ones my movement is I said, I walk out the door to my mailbox in my shoes, because the idea is, if I did it barefoot, then I wouldn't be able to compound it. I write the date in my journal. And my my food one is currently a water one of just like a glass of water, like one glass of water. And then allow yourself to celebrate and bask in that rather than making the goal so big that some days you'll hit it. And some days you won't. And then we get in the good, bad mentality. No, no. Tiny penny, baby step. And allow yourself to feel good about that.
Stephanie Mara 37:52
Yeah, it's so amazing how we wait for something big to happen to acknowledge ourselves. And it has to be like something that you said of like, celebrate every baby step, and I'm like I say that to all my people too. Like you got to celebrate every tiny little baby step that you take. Because it's all actually quite a really big deal. That if you put on your shoes that day, and you walk to the mailbox, even that if you decided not to go any further, that is a big deal. That even took a ton of pennies. Before that you had to get out of bed, you had to get dressed, which it actually took a lot to get to that point to be upright with shoes on and at the mailbox. And so even those tiny little things, a lot had to happen to get to that point. And so I completely agree that you have to start with celebrating the little things because they start to be big things over time.
Suzanne Culberg 38:51
Yeah, so that's the other one I'm doing right now. It's meditation. So it's put my earbuds in and press play. That's literally it. And the thing is, some days, I enjoy it so much, I'll do a second. And some days, it's just like, I just can't do it today. But that's the thing. It's the baseline. And it's as you said, even just I've got to find my phone, I've got to get my earbuds, I've got to open the app, like all these things that we think Oh unless I'm going to do half an hour, it's no point. It's the starting and setting yourself up for the success and breaking the pattern of like, I just can't do this and then scrolling and watching cat videos for hours.
Stephanie Mara 39:25
Which can be fun sometimes too.
Suzanne Culberg 39:28
Yes. But I think it's all about intentionality. Like I love watching videos or even love food. But there's if I could take it or leave it like there's the intentionality versus when I'm zoning out from something that I would rather be doing instead.
Stephanie Mara 39:44
Yeah, absolutely. Totally agree with that. It's saying, Okay, I'm going to intentionally scroll through Tik Tok because I want to laugh because I think that laughter is going to help me right now. As compared to I'm going to zone out because what is happening in my body and in my life feels too much to navigate right now, that's actually a call to check in, instead of checking out which can feel really hard in those moments. And that could be a penny moment of just Okay, so it feels hard to check in right now, what's one small way I can do that? Well, I can like feel my fingertip that's technically checking in. Like it doesn't have to be checking in with the part of your body that feels the most sensation that feels overwhelming. It could be checking in with a part of you that actually feels very neutral, just so that you slowly start to come into contact with yourself.
Suzanne Culberg 40:37
Yeah, yeah, I'm really hearing in those moments, it's just kind of starting to slow down. And even what I like to teach the individuals I also work with is starting to even get to know the cue of should I go eat food right now, as their red flag of Ooh, is something else needing my attention, because when I check in, I actually don't feel physically hungry. And so even our habituated cues, can even be really wise strategies of our body's way of talking to us of Oh, if I could even interpret this in a different way that actually, that's my body's way of getting my attention. You can be like, Oh, thank you for giving me the urge to go reach for food. I understand that may not actually be what I need right now. But thank you for giving me that urge so that I know that I need to check in with myself.
Suzanne Culberg 40:37
I think that's so important. Because so often, I think so many of us feel like we live our lives from the neck up. We don't check in, like, often when I say to people, so how does that feel? And they just, What do you mean how does it feel? Oh, I don't know how it feels. Because we don't. We're conditioned from a young age to ignore our bodies. Like my, my son has just started his second full year of school. He's like, the chairs are so uncomfortable. Like we just sit there all day uncomfortable. And I'm like they do, because we teach we teach people, it doesn't matter that you're uncomfortable, just sit there be quiet. And you know, and it's like, imagine if we actually, what I need right now isn't food or isn't there. So it's like, I just need to do a couple of stretches because my body is actually uncomfortable. But we're not used to listening to that cue. So when we get the cue of well, what's in the fridge? That's one that will listen to because we're used to that.
Suzanne Culberg 42:16
That is such a good point, Stephanie. I think when we can befriend that urge instead of demonizing it and making it bad, like so many people, like, Oh, I just want to conquer my cravings, or I just want to make but when you see them as a signpost like for me now, after all this time, one of my biggest frustrations was like, I still have the go to like, I want chocolate like stat. And now instead of going oh, there's something fundamentally wrong with me. I'm broken. It's like, Oh, what is this a sign of like, what do I really need, getting curious, rather than getting like my inner judge or one of my clients says her inner mean governess, and I just love that because it's that thing. It's like, well, you rap yourself across the metaphorical knuckles saying no, no chocolate for you. And it's like, what's really, what is this about? Why is this happening? Rather than making it mean, there's something wrong with us.
Stephanie Mara 43:08
Yeah, we are totally on the same page with all of these things. When it comes to like you even just named bringing in a lot of curiosity, can you start to see that your current habits and patterns are serving you in some way. And that it will take some time, depending upon all the things that we've talked about today, the season that you're in, the phase that you're in, what's going on with your nervous system, it's going to take some time to shift and change how you're showing up in relationship with your food and body and to give yourself that time, there is no medal for getting there faster.
Suzanne Culberg 43:42
That! And I think that's the thing. And with a lot of the diet culture, a lot of the things it's fast, do it fast, you've got this many weeks. And when you have that mentality, like I know everything I went about with that mentality. In the back of my mind, I was already dreaming about what I could have afterwards. Like, as soon as this is over, I'm gonna go and have Mackers or McDonald's. I said Mackers to someone today and they were like what do you mean by that? It's McDonald's in Australia. But, if you're already dreaming about what you can do afterwards, it's like that's a sign. It's like, oh, this, this isn't going to be forever and the way that you get there is the way that you will be there. So if you're forcing, constraining and restricting and depriving, then it's not going to be lasting. And, you know, forcing ourselves sort of way to live, you know, depriving and deprivation and forcing, instead, as you said, like learning to slow down and check in and listen, and that's often squidgy and uncomfortable, but it's, then it's, you literally break through and it's like, oh, all these things in my body actually being on my side and trying to communicate to me where its needs aren't being met. Not my body is something wrong with it because it feels this way. Being in communication with self. It's, it's a whole it's a process and a journey.
Stephanie Mara 45:00
Yeah, what I also hear in that is creating a life for yourself that you don't feel like you need to run away from. If there's something that you are doing that you can't wait until it's over to do something else get really curious about that, if that thing that you're doing is really working for you. And if there is something that you're like, I can't wait until XYZ thing, well start exploring how XYZ thing could happen now.
Suzanne Culberg 45:25
Yeahhh. Because there's very few things in life that we really have to force ourselves through. Like the dentist, maybe something like that. Like, that's in one moment where I'm like I'm really looking forward to this being over, but not so that I can go and reward myself with food just so like sorry, dentists. I can't I can't come at that. But so many other things. It's like, if you are doing this to get that, is it really worth it? And is that going to be lasting? Because, you know, even when it comes to movement, so many people, it's funny, I did pole dancing a few years back. And what I loved about it is that the hour goes like that, like because it's fun, and you're so present. And I remember, I was never particularly good at it, I enjoyed it. But there was this lady she was hanging upside down by one leg and next door to the pole dancing studio was a CrossFit studio. So we could hear the noise and the banging and whatever. So as this lady is swinging around upside down by one leg, she's like, I really wish I could have the motivation or what did she say? Willpower. This is it. Willpower to be fit. Excuse me? But because she was enjoying it, and having fun in that didn't see it as a workout, as opposed to a grueling thing that you have to force yourself to. So like movement, exercise can be enjoyable, it doesn't have to be like I have to do this thing.
Stephanie Mara 46:46
Yeah, I think that comes right back around to getting really curious about what you're saying yes and no to and then when you find the things you enjoy, allow yourself to enjoy it. That not everything has to feel like work, you know, we're so taught that we have to work so hard at things. But I would even potentially create a list of things that come natural to you that maybe you've lost appreciating about yourself, because it feels so natural to you. It's not even something that you acknowledge about yourself anymore. And just take your time to say, You know what, actually, it's really easy for me to walk my dog, like whatever it might be, it's really easy for me to get in the kitchen and cook myself a meal. It's not that easy for everybody to do some of these really simple things, maybe it feels like a lot of work to them. So even the things that come easy to you, like appreciating that about yourself, just because that's what makes you you.
Suzanne Culberg 47:41
Yeah, 100%. And I think so many of us lose touch with it, because it is easy to us. And because it comes naturally, we don't see that as a skill that other people would love to cultivate. So making that appreciation list of the things that you're already doing well, and even like, in times when things are challenging, things aren't going well appreciating the really small things. Like I always appreciate that when I turn on the tap water comes out. Because not everybody has that all around the world, like the easy access to clean drinking water. I appreciate that I can go for a walk in my suburb, it's it's safe, relatively, you know, and, and I have, you know, the things that we would have, because when we're setting goals, and when we things that we want to create, we can be so focused on what's over there, and how life will be different when we get over there. But when we get over there, we're still us. So I think it's like appreciating all the things that we already have. And then allowing ourselves to stretch, as opposed to being like, this is doom and gloom here. And when I get over there, everything's gonna be amazing. Because you know that saying wherever you go, there you are. And I think that's what stops so many of us from taking action, because we think that life will be so much different over there. When really, it's like glass 50/50, there's going to be good times and there's going to be more struggling times and it's finding the balance and honoring your season. Rather than putting everything off until one day when everything's magically taken care of.
Stephanie Mara 49:05
So beautifully said. I feel like we could talk for ever. And I want to leave time for individuals to hear about how they can keep in touch with you, offerings that you have coming up, if anybody wants to keep in contact with you.
Suzanne Culberg 49:20
Awesome. So my website suzanneculberg.com. I'm sure you'll put it in the show notes because it's an interesting spelling of Culberg. And if you head over there, it's it's by the time this episode lands it might be done. It's currently being re-done. So it's a coming soon page, but it has about my program, which is Why W8. It enrolls four times a year. It has my newsletter. So whether or not you're interested in working together further, I encourage you to jump on my newsletter. I love I love that I call it a newsletter. So many people are like, Suzanne, nobody wants to join the newsletter. My newsletter rocks. It's one of the emails that you'll actually open. It's unique stuff that I don't put anywhere else. And there's also a link to my book, so if you want to read about a weight journey like no other my books actually called The Beginning is Shit: An Unapologetic Weight Loss Memoir. And you know whether you continue to follow me or not, I really hope I really encourage you, after you've listened to this episode, what is one takeaway, the takeaway that's going to take you closer to your goal. And you know, write that down, because it can be easy to consume and listen to all these podcasts and go, Why is nothing changing? I'm listening, I'm reading. I'm following these people. But like, what are you actually going to do differently? What action do you want to take, you know, based on this, and that penny can compound over time.
Stephanie Mara 50:37
I love it. Thank you so much for sharing all of your wisdom today. I'm so glad we got to have this conversation. And yes, I will put all of the links in the show notes and if any of you have any questions, as always, I will put our contact information in the show notes as well. I would love to hear also your takeaways from today's chat. So feel free to email me anytime and I look forward to connecting with you all again really soon. Bye!
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