Breaking Down the Facade of Diet Culture and the Lies it Tells Us About Perceived Control Over Our Body, Weight, and Health

Welcome to the Satiated Podcast where we explore physical and emotional hunger, satiation, and healing your relationship with your food and body. I'm your host Stephanie Mara Fox, your Somatic Nutritional Counselor. I'm excited to introduce you all to Katherine Metzelaar. Katherine is a Seattle-based eating disorder registered dietitian and CEO/Founder of Bravespace Nutrition where she and her team help people heal their relationship with food and body free from perfectionism, fear, and shame. She works with clients to help them create more flexibility and freedom with food by divesting from diet culture and helps them to cultivate peace with their bodies. She specializes in women’s health, disordered eating, eating disorders, and body image healing. She offers individual nutrition counseling and business coaching. I've been wanting to have Katherine on the podcast for a while so it was wonderful to finally connect with her. We get into a fascinating conversation on how dieting is often the first entryway into disordered eating and that diet culture gets passed down from generation to generation. I find this crucially important to address and explore to take any shame off of yourself that this was your fault that you ended up here with the kind of relationship with food you have. Not only have your food coping mechanisms been there trying to protect you, they were also taught to you from what you observed from your parents, grandparents, and family growing up. We explore the lies we receive from diet and wellness culture and how processed foods could even be good for you. I want to put a disclaimer here at the beginning that if something that is put forth as a lie doesn't resonate with you, remember that only you live in your body and only you will know what is best for you. One of the most important things I find on this journey in healing your relationship with food is to invite in a lot of curiosity to explore are you eating a certain food or in a particular way because you've been told to or because you believe it will achieve something for you or because your body has told you that's what works for it. There is no "right" place to eat from. You get to observe what shows up on your plate in your reactions, emotions, sensations, and beliefs along with your food. So let's dive in with Katherine. Welcome!

Katherine Metzelaar 02:58

Yeah, well, you know, as with a lot of nutrition professionals, dieticians, nutritionists, there's often a, I find, a winding path that not everyone is completely transparent about if I'm, if I'm honest with you. And you know, it's interesting, if I take just a couple steps back in thinking about my childhood, and then what was sort of the evolution of, you know, me getting into the profession, then ending up to where I am now. So, growing up, I would describe my relationship with food as being pretty normative, relatively speaking. I grew up in what I consider to be a food-positive household. And part of that was because my mom out of sure, sure, will, was trying to just create a food environment that she didn't have. So, she got put on a diet when she was, I think it was like 10 or 11, maybe even younger, because she was in a larger body than her mom felt comfortable with. And just grew up with lots of rules, lots of terrible, toxic stuff. And so she was like, okay, I don't want that to happen in my household. And I played sports. And I know that that can go a lot of different directions. But the experience that I had was they were very encouraging of eating and eating to fuel. And it was really wonderful. I think in many ways it protected me from a lot as well as what my mom was trying to do in my house. And what I like to say and compare it to is even though she was trying her best, and also my dad, too and my sports team was really helpful and supportive. There was so much going on that I was being exposed to that was running almost parallel to the more positive supportive environments that was happening and one of which was my mom was a chronic dieter like she didn't stop she was still trying her best to create a positive food home environment but she was on Atkins and she was on you know, you name the diet, she was always engaging in something and then all of her sisters, my aunts my grandmother just obsessed with dieting. It was almost like the stage, you know how when you go to a play, and you get there and the curtain is down, and then all of a sudden, you know, the curtain goes up, and the whole stage is set. And it almost feels like it's just been that way all along, you don't realize, the years, the months, think about all the actors and the dancers and how long they've been training and this stage design. That's what it was all I had to do, as soon as I went on my first diet in college, all I had to do was walk up on the stage, that was Diet and Wellness culture, because it was all being built behind me while I was growing up. So, now we're in college, I went on my first diet. And that was really the beginning of a long journey of disordered eating, that then transitioned into my own eating disorder. And, you know, I think a lot of people think that diets are innocuous and harmless. But we know that all eating disorders start with, the majority, I'll say a majority of eating disorders start with a diet. So I dieted. I went on Atkins, actually, at the time, not a coincidence, you know, seeing that I had grown up with it. That turned into binging and purging and then just binging for long periods of time, and then dieting. And then, eventually, I became vegetarian and then it got even more strict and then not really transitioned into full-blown orthorexia for a couple of years. That's what led me to graduate school, I just thought I knew all of the answers, I just needed to go, I needed to get that stamp of approval, I was going to teach other people how to eat and I knew everything. And then grad school just kind of blew everything up for me, because it was the first time in my life where I had to learn how to read research, I had to be questioned about my beliefs, and show evidence for it. And I had for many years been thinking and believing that Google was gospel, you know? If someone said that research supported it, and it was online, then I would believe it, and then you get caught. And we see a lot of the similarities in this way on social media, you get caught in kind of these echo chambers. And this was, it wasn't pre-social media, Facebook, I'm dating myself a little bit, Facebook was still around. But it wasn't quite, the algorithm wasn't the same as it is now. But still, this was sort of the peak of healthism and wellness culture. And so I just got stuck in that and got more and more and more restrictive. And I think it's important to note that I was never officially diagnosed with an eating disorder that now that I'm an eating disorder professional, I can diagnose myself retrospectively, but I say and share that because I think so many people, and I felt this way, too, can't really see how unwell they are, and are waiting for a diagnosis in order to to start their own healing journey. And the reality is, there's a ton of people that aren't diagnosed. And just because you don't tick all the boxes for a formal diagnosis does not mean that you don't need support, don't deserve support. I think we have a lot of and I could talk about this endlessly, a lot of, there's a lot of stigma and preconceived notions about when do we reach out for support, but nonetheless, I went to graduate school. And then that's when everything started to just, you know, slowly but surely be teased out. I realized after actually an eating disorder lecture that came in that I was like, oh, there's something wrong. I reached out to get support, started my own healing journey, and that took many, many years, because it just doesn't happen overnight. And I know we say those things. But it's not until we have some distance from it, that you realize that it's just a really long and not always intense as other times, right? There's more intense periods than other times, but that started my journey. And then I realized at a certain point after I worked for a health company for a little bit of postgraduate school, that there was no way that I could practice other than the way that I practice now, as a dietitian at Brightspace Nutrition, which is I realized I wanted to help people heal their relationship with food in their body in a way that I didn't get to experience. Hopefully, on the end of prevention, that's the idea, but also to get people out of maybe where they're at sooner rather than later, because that is something that's most exciting to me, most interesting and most ethical, honestly, because I couldn't practice any other way.

Stephanie Mara 09:18

Wow, there's so many threads there that I greatly resonate and agree with. I love your example of setting the stage. My background is actually in theater. So, I was like, such an apropos, I totally get what you're talking about. It's all just one moment, not just one moment, but that feels like there's this one moment where it's everything was already laid out. Where it was like exactly like you said, all you had to do was walk on the stage, and there's your eating disorder. And I think for some individuals, it's really confusing because it happens so slowly and so subtle that these great intentions that maybe you had of 'oh, well, I just want to, you know, play around with my food' or 'oh, wouldn't it be nice to lose a little bit of weight?' suddenly snowballs on itself. Where you look back months, years later, that's like, wait a second, how did I get here?

Katherine Metzelaar 10:18

Yes, yes, I really appreciate you naming that it happened slowly and subtly. And I think that there's a couple of reasons. One, because it usually doesn't start off as particularly what we might consider to be extreme, right? It's just a little something here, or I'll cut out this or I'll start this quote, unquote, healthy lifestyle program, or whatever we want to call it, you know, because no diet these days wants to call themselves a diet, because they picked up on how that's not a good marketing terminology, even though they're doing the same thing that they've always done. But nonetheless, that it's insidious, it's slow, it creeps up on you. And I like to say it's almost like, I don't celebrate Christmas, but I think about even Santa Claus, and like a Santa Claus bag that he carries around and how at first it starts off kind of empty. And then we go on one, one, diet one, program something and then you throw something in there, and then something else. And then before you know it, it becomes this really heavy bag. And it makes it almost difficult to stand up. And you just get used to carrying around this heavy bag, but you can't fully stand up. And I think that there's a lot of parallels to that in regards to you know, disordered eating and how it accumulates over time that you just you get used to how disordered things are. And don't realize, usually, at least not right away how heavy of a burden it is to constantly be thinking about food constantly be thinking about your body, constantly be afraid of food and what you're eating, constantly be stuck in cycles of restriction and binge eating. And so much of what happens when we're stuck in those cycles. Our culture really normalizes either demonizes or encourages, depending on what the behavior is. And it can feel really hard to get out of it, you know? To not really know where to turn, who to reach out to, and really just this question of like, am I sick enough to deserve help?

Stephanie Mara 12:09

Yeah, it makes me think of, it can feel really confusing around who to trust because your trust has already been broken within yourself. And what you were even referencing is once you start learning, I can't trust the Google machine anymore. Like where do I go to? Who do I trust? And I also want to bring back something important that you were starting to reference, was what you were taught from your family and realizing potentially that you can't turn to your family anymore, either, because they were the original platform that sparked these disordered eating behaviors. And that to heal, it's like, you can't heal in the original environment that created it. So like you were referencing, like the role model of seeing your mom dieting, which I so get that and then seeing that and being like, oh, well, that's just what I'm supposed to do when I grow up. And yeah, it can feel really confusing at that point in time. And I just want to name that of how this is passed down from generation to generation.

Katherine Metzelaar 13:13

It's so interesting you bring this up because I was actually thinking just this morning, how powerful it can be to break generational cycles in many ways. And I think that this is one of the areas that isn't often, at least publicly, talked about too much, which is, we don't have to do the same things. I know that it's easier said than done what I'm about to say. But we don't have to do the same things as our moms and our aunties. And I don't want to exclude dads and male figures in people's lives too, because I want to say, as an aside, but an important note that I do feel like moms get a lot of blame for the eating habits and behaviors that we develop. And I'm not saying that they, depending on your family system and structure and experience, that there's not merit there, but only to say that men, and I've seen this in working with clients over time, many dads, for example, have had an impact, negative impact on their kids' relationship with food in their body. But nonetheless, absolutely that our family system has a huge impact on our relationship with food, our relationship with our body, how we see our own self-sense of worthiness of love, and deservedness and how that ends up translating into, you know if I can control my body shape and size, then I will deserve love, then I will deserve, you know, fill in the blank. And I really appreciate what you're saying about the trust piece, of realizing and it's devastating, realizing both of their family, but I would say especially the sources that we have gone to that have given us advice around food and kind of this moment more specifically, when you I describe it as like waking up to the fact that diet culture exists. And it doesn't happen overnight, but there is this moment like wow, I've been lied to about so many things. And then all of a sudden, to your point, you're like well, where do I go? Who do I trust? My family, I'm realizing, is probably not the best source. At minimum, they are neutral, and you know, and then I don't know where to turn to out in the world. So what do I do? Right? How do I change my relationship to food in my body when literally everywhere you look, the doctor's office, your friends, your local, you know, gym class, you name it, the same stuff is being said and taught over and over again. And it can just feel really hard, I think, to start, and I really can relate and empathize with that, because I know I felt that way too, and just really angry as well, that so much of what I had been told was was wrong and kind of a lie.

Stephanie Mara 15:44

Yeah. I'm curious if we could actually get into that more, of what do you feel like are the biggest lies that we're being told around food, for example?

Katherine Metzelaar 15:54

Oh, my gosh, so many, such a great question. Okay, so with food, I think it's really important to talk about social determinants of health. So we are told that we have 100% control over our health and well-being. If you just work hard enough, if you just go to the gym and eat all the right foods, then everything is going to work out, right? And this puts a overemphasis on individual responsibility. If you have something going on with your health, it's your fault, and you need to change it. And if you are a quote, unquote, healthy person, which usually means thin in our culture, then you know, you've done it right, you're doing a good job. And that is unfortunately not how human bodies work. That's not how the world works. So, social determinants of health are the things that impact our health and well-being that are completely separate from food and movement. The World Health Organization breaks it up into this beautiful pie, and it shows of that pie, I see you shake your head

Stephanie Mara 16:51

I've seen this, yeah...

Katherine Metzelaar 16:53

But for your listeners if they don't, because I feel like...

Stephanie Mara 16:56

and I can put a link in the show notes to this.

Katherine Metzelaar 16:58

Yeah, yeah, great, great, but it breaks it down. I think it shows about 30% of that pie that contributes to your health and well-being is food and movement. So you have to think about even within that 30% If we divide it by by half, what we're saying is only 15% maximum. That's and that's a, I think that's a generous statistic, impacts your health and well-being. So here we are walking around thinking and wow, does this contribute to shame and guilt when it comes to food, thinking that and then also feeling like if something happens, it's our fault with our health and well-being thinking that it is up to us to control our health and well-being. And if we're eating the wrong foods, then we're just one or two or three, you know, steps away from taking a turn to having ill health where it's much more complex than that. Social determinants of health are very real. And that also puts into question, you know, all the things that we've been told about bodies. So that's one the overemphasis on individual responsibility for health and well-being when it comes to food. And if you just eat this way, then you will get this version of quote, unquote, health.

Katherine Metzelaar 18:06

The second one is that we, and it changes based on as you get older, you will see, you know, for your listeners, depending on what age they are, the cycles of different kinds of diets and what we're told will make us well. I was a little too young, but I remember my mom following it of like low-fat is the best, and you need to follow that for cardiovascular health. Then that switched and now carbs, goodness, I can't wait to get out of this era, but carbs have been demonized for as long as I can remember in my lifetime. And so I think the second lie is that we've got it all figured out when it comes to food. That somehow if you eat or don't eat certain foods, that it will protect you from the things that happen to humans. And I get it, you know, I'm thinking specifically of the book, How to Not Die, which I think is such an interesting title. And we are really vulnerable as humans. And I think that you know, I could really go off on this in like a human and philosophical way. But you know, I see so much in my work with clients. And over the years that a lot of, not for everyone, but a lot of what people are trying to protect themselves from is the vulnerability of being a human, you know, getting sick, getting cancer, or getting some kind of illness. I think that that's sort of wrapped up in one of the lies that were told, if you just eat this way, then nothing bad is going to happen to you. And that can get us stuck in some really, really disordered patterns that I see quite often both in my clients and I most certainly experienced. And so I think that those are a couple that are coming to mind I'm sure I could think of more there are so many lies out there that are used, goodness I could think of more specific examples of like ways people market, the way that they sell their products. I could go into detail about like supplements and lies about you know the quality of soil and just so many things that I have had to really challenge over the years on my own, and that I now help clients to kind of unravel in that way. Because there's, there's just so much that we're told that isn't quite the whole picture.

Stephanie Mara 20:12

Yeah. And I really feel like you nailed it with all of this is to keep a distance from the fear that our life is not infinite. It is finite, and we will not be here forever. And we have no idea how long it might be, and that the nutritional wellness world is giving this false hope or false belief that if we just do these things that we can avoid or prolong life or avoid sickness, and we just don't know.

Katherine Metzelaar 20:48

Mmhmm. Yeah, definitely.

Stephanie Mara 20:51

But it's capitalizing on that fear that, you know, so many of us have, and aren't taught how to be with from a very young age.

Katherine Metzelaar 20:59

No, no, and it's hard to market from that perspective to like, 'Hey, by the way, we're all gonna die, but you know, buy this product anyway'. Which is not to say that I am endorsing fear tactics, which is really what we're talking about to sell a product or to sell, sell, quote, unquote, a lifestyle. And it's also and I think neither you nor I am saying that we can't live well lives in whatever way that means. Or some people might describe it as healthy. And that's a tricky term. And we all might define it slightly differently. But that, you know, it's bigger than food and bodies, it's much bigger, what it means to be well and or healthy. If we choose to use that word, we got to look at the systems that we exist in. And that could be a whole nother conversation. But I think that a big part of the reason why I got into this work is because Diet and Wellness culture, steal life from us. And if my value is to help others to kind of take life by the reins, and pursue it, which is honestly the whole reason why I got into nutrition to begin with, even though I was stuck in my own disordered eating, eating disorder. If I want people to take life by the reins then I, in my mind, I have to find a way to help them to heal their relationship with their body because when we are stuck in these cycles, we're not fully present. We can't spontaneously go out to eat, we can't be fully present with our children at mealtime, we can't go on vacation and eat what we want and move in the way we want. We can't have fulfilling relationships with people in our lives, That it's all stunted and it really steals life from us.

Stephanie Mara 22:39

Yeah, one more that I would potentially add on to this was you put out a post a little bit ago about eating processed foods could actually help heal your relationship with food. And I'm wondering if we could chat a little bit more about that because, yeah, I think when we're talking about this wellness culture, and you know, I've had individuals come to me being like, 'Do you know what whole 30 is?' And I'm like, yes, I know what whole 30 is, and like all that, the cleanses and the detoxes, and all the things that demonize some of these other foods, and you know, capitalize on that fear of like, don't eat these foods, these are the things that are breeding sickness. And there's another story that's happening here as well.

Katherine Metzelaar 23:24

Oh, the processed foods. The, what is it? Processed foods - highly processed foods, it's like every time I think about it, I think about like the most extreme reels or videos or gosh, even YouTube videos that immediately I'm not even afraid of processed foods anymore. I was it's at a certain point, but I see it and I feel anxious even watching them. So, I know that people that have questions about this probably feel that way, too. So the reason why I posted that is because there's so many misconceptions about processed foods. And I will dive into that in a moment. The reason why I named that processed foods can be helpful when you're healing your relationship with food is for a couple of reasons. One is because many of the people, not all, but many of the people that come to me to work with me have been eating a lot of fibrous foods. People have fiber, usually, and I'm generalizing here, so I don't want anyone to think by any means that if they don't fit into this category, they don't deserve help and support, but just kind of generally that we are hit over the head with this idea that you need to eat fiber. In fact, not only do you need to fiber, you need to eat more fiber, you're not getting enough fiber. So what happens everybody eats a lot of fruits and vegetables, usually too many, especially when they're on some kind of program. And if they're not eating them, they feel like they should be eating more, they feel guilty for what they're eating. And so over time, what ends up happening is for many people, they get a lot of digestive issues from this, they're bloated a lot. They either have constipation or loose bowels or diarrhea or, you know, they oscillate in between the two. And so one of the reasons why processed food can be helpful is because processing helps our body have to do less. So when we think about it from when our body is trying to heal, for example, from disordered eating, we want to help it out just a little bit, we don't want to be giving it lots of different foods that has to do lots of work to break down just to get the energy. And by the way, the energy in fruits and vegetables is very little. So processed food, we're just eliminating some of those steps that the body has to take in order to break down the food and get the nutrients that is very important. When we are working to heal our relationship with food. So much is like hey, we're just going to help you out a little bit, we're going to give you less work to do as well as we want to reduce the overall fiber intake. This is very difficult and very fear-inducing for many people, because also too, the foods that have a lot of fiber in them that are higher in fiber tend to be the foods that are safe foods for a lot of people foods that they don't feel fear around. So what I'm saying is great, we're going to reduce those safe foods, and we're going to increase your fear foods, which can be scary. Also, too, processed foods, the second thing is they are easily accessible, we don't have to cook often or there are less steps involved. And so again, I would say broadly, this, they are helpful in this way. But also specifically when we're healing our relationship with food that we need things that are easier, we don't want every single thing that we're making and cooking to be this long process. And I see this with a lot of clients that I've worked with over time, like, 'oh, I have all these ingredients in my house', or 'I can't make anything because you know, it's going to take forever', that we're shrinking the time by using processed foods, things that have already, you know, there steps that have been taken out in order to help us be nourished in, you know, generally and long term. I think the last thing that I'll say and I think it's also an important part of thinking about the importance of processed food is that they're affordable. And not everybody can afford all of the foods. And gosh, especially once we start getting into like, all the stuff that wellness culture promotes and how expensive it is. So many of the processed foods that are demonized are foods that are nourishing, that are quick to make, and are affordable. And so I think that sometimes all three of those apply to someone, right, sometimes only one of them or a couple of them apply. And the last thing I'll say that I forgot to include is that processed foods usually are fear foods. And so when we are working on healing our relationship with food, a big important part of doing that is challenging the foods that we are afraid of. And so in addition to the three things that I named, this fourth piece is also part of it that we slowly but surely work on introducing fear foods so that we can get to a place where it's not stealing life from us. Well, we don't need to think about foods or feel anxious about foods and what we're eating. And so that's part of the way that we do that by introducing those, what some would consider to be classify as processed foods.

Stephanie Mara 27:57

Yeah, I'm having a thought that I've never named out loud before. But I want to throw it out there. Because I'm really curious, just as you're talking, I talk a lot about the nervous system and nervous system regulation on the podcast. And oftentimes, when we are in a fight, flight, or freeze response, that's when we're going towards more of these processed foods. And I'm kind of seeing it in a different lens, just as you're talking right now, of usually individuals will so judge themselves. 'Oh, why? Why couldn't I like get control over myself? Like, why is that the food that I chose in that moment?' Well, if we see it from a physiological standpoint, your digestion shuts down when you're living more in the sympathetic nervous system response. And of course, you would want to reach for something also that feels easier to digest. You know, just in you talking about, like, hey, this processed food it is broken down for you so that you can assimilate it easier. So that if you are living your day, in kind of a dysregulated state, yeah, you want something that you can still eat food and be able to maybe kind of digest it when you're already struggling and taking in food just with the state that you're living in. So, I kind of wanted to throw that out there. I don't know, like, I would have to do more research on that, but I just bring that in of there's so much judgment around eating something that is as you know, hyper-processed, processed foods, canned, preservatives, all of these things. And ultimately, it's actually maybe supporting you in a lot of different ways to eat those foods.

Katherine Metzelaar 29:32

Yeah. 100% Absolutely. And I would add to if someone is already dieting on top of any kind of dysregulation that they're experiencing, and then they're in fight or flight then you know, you've got the I'm undernourished, the body's saying please help me on top of digestive issues that we can face. Right? In terms of things shutting down when we're in, in sympathetic right? And when we're in fight or flight and so absolutely, I mean, I often say that it's actually, really wise to reach for foods that are easily digestible, when we're dysregulated, right? When there's stressful situations because we're just not as able to do all the things that we can it's like, again, processed foods eliminate, it's so practical, and yet I understand that it's so much more complex than that. But it eliminates all the steps that are needed to cook and to make and to do and are also very nourishing, you know, there's so many options, and also just myths, I think about processed foods. And I think, too, and I see this, you know, gosh, it's so hard to communicate nuance online, but when I'll talk about this, people say, 'Well, are you saying, as a dietitian, that you should be eating processed foods all the time?', and people eat, you know, they usually they are very activated in their nervous system, because they're feeling something's definitely kicked in. And they think that you know, having nuanced conversations about this means that I am going into absolutes, and I'm definitely not. What I want for people is for them to eat in a way that feels most supportive for their lives, for their well-being that's in alignment with their own values. That's not something that I get to decide. And I'm not saying that fruits and vegetables don't have a place or what some would consider whole foods or less processed foods. Variety is where it's at - our bodies love variety and benefit most from it. We get ourselves stuck in some really tricky, sticky patterns and cycles when it becomes absolute. So, a lot of times what we have to do, because we go from one extreme is that we have to kind of swing to the other, which is not to say, again, that I'm saying you need to eat processed foods all the time, but just that we have to introduce a lot more of the foods that you've been restricting for a while. And then eventually we find the middle over time where usually for most people, they're grabbing a combination of all kinds of things to best suit and meet their needs, whether they're dysregulated, or not, whether they're busy or not, whether they're on vacation or not. But to be able to have that choice is really the biggest thing. What I am hoping and wanting for my clients, which is to decide and not feel like they are sort of pinned in a corner in that way, full of fear of doing it wrong, and not knowing what to eat and then feeling like whatever they eat is the wrong thing.

Stephanie Mara 32:21

Yeah. And something I want to get into a little bit more with you is something that you were talking about earlier about, like never being formally diagnosed. I wasn't either and I could look back and be like, oh, yeah, okay. And I think that for a lot of individuals, they're not quite sure. And I don't want to go by the DSM definitions or anything like that, of what, you know, they have identified as like, this is what qualifies as an eating disorder. I'm curious if we could talk more about the, those subtle behaviors that individuals are like, 'is this disordered? I'm not quite sure.'

Katherine Metzelaar 33:02

Yeah, I'm often of the mindset. And I say this quite a bit. If there's chaos in the brain, you deserve support. I don't believe in waiting. And I understand because I was in this boat of questioning whether or not we might benefit from support. And I think it's, it's helpful and I actually wrote a blog about this, because I think that it's useful information, which is to talk about some of the differences or how I conceptualize disordered eating versus eating disorders so that people can kind of begin to think, for your listeners. Okay, where am I? Or where might I be on this spectrum? So I like to think about eating disorders, if we think about a spectrum as being on one end, maybe like a normative relationship with food on the other. One where there's no presence of any kind of disordered behaviors, and then somewhere in between the, and on that spectrum is disordered eating. So it's not that, and this is a big myth I think that I see, that eating disorders are this huge difference and leap from dieting, disordered eating, a lot of people like to say, 'oh, no, no, no, that's, that's not me'. And I get that. That's not me. I don't have an eating disorder. And what they don't realize is often the difference is frequency of behavior. That's really often what we're talking about. Of course, there are some other criteria. But still, with that said, we think about starting with eating disorders on that spectrum. And then we transition into what we call subclinical eating disorders, which is we have a whole variety of symptoms that fall under eating disorder diagnoses but don't meet the frequency at which the DSM says you need to have, you know, purging x times a week for x weeks in order to meet this. There are a lot of people that have subclinical eating disorders a lot, a lot a lot. And this is why a lot of people get missed because they don't either fit the criteria and/or because of the existence of weight stigma and how many people and clinicians assume things based on someone's body size and the stigma that exists out there that largely because of our culture and our media and the way it talks about eating disorders, people often think, well, I don't look really thin and I don't look like that picture, then that's not, you know, that's not me. So, I digress. Going back to the spectrum, we transition from subclinical eating disorders into what I tend to think about as kind of chronic dieting, someone that tries things, maybe it's a wellness program, maybe it's something else, maybe they start, you know, Noom is it really unfortunately, popular one, and goodness, I didn't start as an aside, but related to this. I got Hulu recently, and they have commercials in there. And so I'm recently exposed to commercials in I have not in a while. And there was an advertisement for Noom. And I was like, oh goodness, they are so tricky. They were so tricky.

Stephanie Mara 35:47

So tricky. They're using all the buzzwords. They've got their marketing team on it. I've had so many clients ask me, 'Is Noom a diet?' and like have to clarify, absolutely!

Katherine Metzelaar 36:00

Yes, yes, the whole commercial was just so fascinating. They were like, you know, you don't need to go on these powdery shakes and these programs. They just really know what they're doing in terms of convincing people that you know, they're not a diet with their BS, quote, unquote, psychology, that's not actually psychology. And it's just, you know, the same old diet nonsense that we've been fed for forever. But folks in that sort of part of the spectrum that they have been chronically dieting, tried lots of different things, and been engaging in various types of disordered eating, but maybe at less of a frequency than the subclinical eating disorders, which is less than the frequency of the eating disorder. And then, you know, we transition into what would be the normative or what one might describe as normative relationship with food, which is there isn't any disordered eating going on, there's meal consistency, there's no food rules, etc. So I think to your question, which was, you know, people are kind of wondering, how do I know if I deserve support? You know, when do I reach out? I really want to emphasize, if there is a question, it means that you need support. It usually means that you need support, I think, as a secondary or follow up to that, because I know that it's not as easy as like, okay, if I'm questioning, I deserve support because there's also, you know, this whole question around deservedness and deservedness of health, help. rather. I think the second thing is, if food is on your mind a lot, then that's usually an indication that there's something, that something is going on, right? If you have anxiety, or worries, or fears about food, if you find yourself going long periods of time without eating, if you find yourself stuck in cycles of either binging or eating to the point of discomfort, and you can't quite get out of it. If you feel like you can't keep certain foods in the house because all you do is think about them. Or when you're finally exposed to them, you feel out of control around them. If you find yourself stuck in cycles of restriction, like you noticed, skipping breakfast and you know, drinking coffee instead. And maybe just getting yourself into patterns of behaviors that are normalized or dismissed in our world, in our culture that are disordered, you know, our dieting and wellness culture normalizes disordered eating to the point that when I post something about anything related to disordered eating, people will fight me, fight me online about how help quote, unquote, healthy or normal or that's how, you know, they are fill in the blank, happy, etc. And so I think that it's important that people know and believe for what it's worth, that they deserve support if it's taking any headspace from their life.

Stephanie Mara 38:34

Yeah, yeah. I completely agree that if you are questioning it, then it's a 'yes'. If you are starting to feel like your relationship with food is actually taking you away from living a vibrant, satiating life, then, yeah, it's time to maybe reach out for support. And that can be in a whole bunch of different ways. You know, like you were talking about before, I know that working with someone one-on-one isn't always financially doable for everyone, but there are so many different Facebook groups, different Instagram accounts, different hashtags you can follow just to start to put new information in your world and be surrounded by different people.

Katherine Metzelaar 39:16

Yes, I say, you know, we have a page on our website on bravespacenutrition.com of podcasts, of books, of, like you said, hashtags. We also wrote a blog on that. There are free support groups actually, I'm thinking of some of the eating disorder treatment centers in the area and lots more that is out there. That is, there are free places to begin and you know, different kinds of blogs. We don't have to start with diving into one-on-one work. Of course, I would recommend it if it's possible and accessible to someone because that's going to be the fastest. Because it's never just we're doing one-on-one work, we're also doing it alongside of getting group support usually or also exposing ourselves changing our social media feed, listening to podcasts like yours and others, reading blog articles, and for a whole host of reasons, you know, sometimes people don't have the time or the money or both, or they're feeling apprehensive about it. And so there are other ways most certainly to start that are free before someone dives into this work. And in fact, if someone is questioning it, actually I think that that's a good place to start. Because I've worked with many people over time who say, I didn't actually think that anything was wrong, this is just kind of how my life was and how everyone in my life did things. And then I started listening to fill in the blank podcast and realize, oh, my gosh, I have an eating disorder, I have heard that, that statement, so many times, or at least, you know, realized that they experienced a lot of disordered eating. And so I think in that way, it can be really affirming to listen to different kinds of podcasts and different resources, that name, the disordered eating behaviors, that name the ways in which it took life and presence away from them, because then people can begin to see themselves in that, in that experience, which helps often them to affirm that things actually aren't okay, even though they've gotten used to carrying, as I referenced before, that big Santa Claus bag of all those rules around and gotten used to, you know, walking bent over. And we can just kind of put down that bag once we begin to be affirmed in our own experience of disordered eating that then can lead to us reaching out and getting help in some kind of way.

Stephanie Mara 41:23

Yeah. So I usually like to wrap up with offering a baby step for individuals to take because there's, there's many different baby steps that someone can take. I know you just kind of named one of you know, go check out some of the resources on your website. I'll put that link in the show notes and listening to podcasts. Is there any other, like when someone's realizing you know what, I feel like something is off in my relationship with food or actually I have been that chronic dieter, or you know, what, actually I have been playing out a disordered eating or eating disorder patterns for many years now. What do you feel like would be a first step that comes to you to suggest?

Katherine Metzelaar 42:02

I think that the one that I named just a moment ago is a good one, but if I had to name a different one at this moment, it would be find one person, it can be you know, on Instagram, on TikTok, on YouTube, one person that you trust or have some draw to maybe you don't know, you might not completely trust them yet, and sign up for their newsletter. Because many people that are in this work, I have a newsletter that I send out, but there's it doesn't need to be me. Mine is called Dear Diet Culture It's me Sunday, but I think that that is a way, in my opinion, that you can get digestible, tiny nuggets of guidance, of insight, of advice that keeps it on your radar in a way that doesn't make it too overwhelming. To my point, when we first started, when we kind of begin to wake up to the fact that we've been existing in wellness and diet culture, it can feel like a lot, and it can feel like we are swimming upstream. It's really important and often really hard too, but I believe it's really important to take things nice and slow, to take them in small pieces. And I love that you said the baby step, just find one person, right? It could be your newsletter, for example, you sign up for it, and you get it in a way that you can digest it, you get it in a way that you can process it, and then trust that from there it will blossom. Like we got, we're starting off with I tell my clients this, when we start off this work, it's like this, you know, the little baby plants that you buy, usually from the store when you're willing to like you know, start a garden or maybe plant a tree for example. And it's just this like tiny, wobbly little plant and this like, you know, precarious bit of dirt and soil and we put it in the ground and we have to, it's very similar to this journey. We can't just go over and the next day, for example, walk over and pull it up by its tiny little trunk and assume that it's good and strong and rooted and it can withstand the elements and all the things. No, we got to you know, we got to nurture it, we got to water it and give it food and protect it from the sun, and then over time, the roots will go stronger, grow stronger, and the trunk will begin to grow and blossom. And that is what happens, but it does not happen overnight. So, that would be my one baby step. Start off with just one newsletter from one person that you think 'okay, I think I like the kinds of things that they're saying I could trust them with the advice and information that they're giving about food and body image healing'.

Stephanie Mara 44:40

I love that suggestion. That's so great. Yes, and yeah, it is a very tolerable, manageable step to take. It's so small to not put yourself into overwhelm but just to start to, to water that little seed, and speaking of newsletters, how can individuals keep in touch with you and to your work in the world.

Katherine Metzelaar 45:01

Yeah, so Instagram, @katherinemetzelaar. On my website, bravespacenutrition.com. On TikTok, Katherine Metzelaar as well. You can sign up for my newsletter on the website. I also have a free resource, which is a journaling calendar for the whole year. So every month, folks will get activities and journaling questions all related to healing the relationship with their body. And I created that because I am a firm believer in the more resources that we can have the better. And so speaking of free resources, that's a great option so they can sign up for that, but they don't need to. They can also just sign up for the newsletter on my website. And then I also have a YouTube channel, Katherine Metzelaar.

Stephanie Mara 45:39

Awesome. Well, I just loved this conversation today. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and your expertise. And yeah, I'll put all of those links in the show notes so people can keep in touch with you.

Katherine Metzelaar 45:50

You're welcome. Thank you so much for having me. It was really wonderful to be here.

Stephanie Mara 45:53

Yeah, well to everyone listening, as always, if you have any questions reach out anytime. I will leave also our contact information in the show notes. And looking forward to connecting with you all next week. Bye!

Keep in touch with Katherine here:

Website: www.bravespacenutrition.com

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bravespacenutrition

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@katherinemetzelaar

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@KatherineMetzelaar

Free Food/body image journaling calendar: https://www.bravespacenutrition.com/calendar-freebie

Contact: katherine@bravespacenutrition.com