Befriend your Body and Rediscover Pleasure After Past Trauma

Welcome to the Satiated Podcast, where we explore physical and emotional hunger, satiation and healing your relationship with your food and body. I'm your host, Stephanie Mara Fox, your Somatic Nutritional Counselor.

Truth be told, I don't love the way my body looks every single day of the year. There are some days I wish I were taller or less curvaceous or had more toned this or that. What I can say is I feel a great peace with my body that I don't strive to change how it looks that would sacrifice my body feeling cared for, listened to, and supported. It is really normal to sometimes feel uncomfortable in your body and the way it looks. When you grow up surrounded by diet culture and family members dieting, it instills the message that the body is something to work on and perfect. When you grow up without anyone around you celebrating you for who you are and only hear praise when you lose weight, it provides the message that the only thing that matters about you is how you look. When you're bullied for the body you live in, your body becomes the enemy rather than your ally. Body image concerns tend to stick around long after your food coping mechanisms have decreased. If there were layers to this healing, I might see this as food coping mechanisms as the top layer that get the most attention typically because they're right on the surface. Below that would be the body image concerns and that layer is protecting you from getting to the layers underneath that include a lack of safety, insecure attachment, and trauma responses such as fawning leading to a decrease in boundary setting.

Today, I chat with Marla Mervis-Hartmann, Best Selling author of "BE-Friend Yourself-Finding Freedom with Food and Peace with your Body." She is a Coach, Reiki Master, and TEDx speaker dedicated to guiding people toward deep love and peace with their bodies, food, and lives. With a spiritual approach that goes beyond diet culture, Marla helps individuals find true healing and reconnect with their authentic selves. She thrives in supporting others on their journey to self-compassion and empowerment. We discuss what the journey toward self love takes, navigating diet culture, entering this new year with an intention toward self compassion and self care rather than weight loss, and the role of pleasure and emotional expression in healing.

If you're looking for a somatic, trauma, and nervous system lens to heal your relationship with your food and body, come learn about my work called Somatic Eating®. I have two self-paced Somatic Eating® courses or my 3 month live Somatic Eating® Program that will happen again in May 2025. I will leave the links in the show notes to check these out and you can join the waitlist for the next Somatic Eating® Program class. You can also email me at support@stephaniemara.com with any questions or to discuss working with me 1:1. Now, welcome Marla!

Well, I am really excited to have you here on the podcast today. And you know, I always like to get started with people's stories and their backgrounds, because it's so interesting just to hear the journeys that people have been on, to get to the work that they're doing today. And so I'd love to hear a little bit more about your background and what brought you to, you know, writing your book, which I'm sure we'll get to, and all the beautiful work that you do in the world.

Marla Mervis-Hartmann 03:55

Oh, thank you so much. Stephanie, it's so great to be on this podcast. I just want to say that I feel like you're giving such a gift to people who are struggling with their body and with food. It feels like there's just a beautiful home landing that you give from like all the tips and the practical tips, but also just the way that the space is held. So I just want to say thank you for that, and thank you from your listeners and myself included. So thank you. So my journey is not, not very unique, right? It's a woman in a woman's body struggling. I struggled a lot with my body image. I struggled a lot with food. And you know, I don't come from someone who from big numbers. I've actually was born in a body that was thin and strong and healthy, and I had a lot of attention on my body, actually, as a very young girl, like at a time when it was not okay to have focus on my body from adults and from older people, and I really got that idea that my body was important. And I better keep it this way, because that's how I'm getting attention, and that's how I'm getting focus, right? And so that kind of hit me. I just can remember that moment. I can remember, like, walking down the hallway in high school being like, oh, I've gained weight. This isn't okay, right? And that little light bulb moment going on. So fast forward, just acting, athlete, you know, New York City, like running around, chicken with my head cut off, not eating, not taking care of myself, really focusing and letting my body image, my negative body image, my dieting, which I kind of put emotional eating and emotional dieting under the same category, a lot of that going on, and that's really how I dealt with my life. That's how I coped with with life and stress, was through eating and dieting and stressing out. So when I finally realized that I didn't have a food problem and I didn't have a weight problem, I actually had an internal pain and a deep come to Jesus moment of like, this is about self love, and this is a deep journey that I need to go on. This isn't just a fix it and get the number on the scale the right number, and control my food right. And so that took me on a very long journey of recovery. There wasn't even social media for part, you know, most of my recovery, so I didn't have people like you and I that could support my journey. So I was really putting things together, and I'm so grateful for the mentors, and I'm so grateful and that I found myself on the other end, and I can't even believe that I have, you know, because this is just something was so ingrained. This just beating myself up with my, beating my body up, and not listening to it, and overriding and really, so much negative body image and so much food turmoil. It's been a slow journey. I don't think it's a recovery. It's not something you turn it on and then you turn it off, and I'm grateful for every moment of it, and I'm still on that journey, because I'm a woman in a body that has to eat.

Stephanie Mara 07:06

Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing all that, and I really appreciate your lived experience that I feel like we haven't even touched upon as much on this podcast about usually, there are all these stories about women who gain weight, maybe at a young age, or their bodies were criticized, or they were told to go on a diet, and all of these things, of like, my body's not right because of my weight. But also, there's the opposite spectrum that you're pointing to of when a woman's body gets attention when it's really not meant to, when it's kind of like, hey, you are still a child, and it's not meant to get that kind of attention at such a young age, and how that also affects and warps our experience of our body. So thanks for naming that and bringing forth your experience with that and also naming that like because of the world that we live in and how much weight stigma women still get the journey is never ending.

Marla Mervis-Hartmann 08:09

Exactly. So I was just in Los Angeles, and I was at, I did a book signing there, and and I got there, and all of a sudden I started having like these body image like thoughts, I was like, body checking, and I was doing, I'm like, What the heck am I doing? And I'm like, I'm in like, the, like, the diet culture, like, capital of the world, right? And there's just so much energy around body and food. And, like, I was, like, steeping in it, and it's just like, oh no. Just remember where you are, you're okay. Just let that thought go by. That's not yours, right? And I think realizing that we are living in diet culture, and it is something that we have to, on a regular basis, be on top of, otherwise it just starts to consume us just because we're living in it.

Stephanie Mara 08:59

Yeah, it's something that I find needs to be caught. And I know I've talked about this on other previous podcasts as well, that diet culture will continue to be sneaky. It will continue to be manipulative and find its way into every nook and cranny and crevice. Like, I'm seeing it kind of come into the somatic psychology world and the ways that it shows up there and and so, you know, it's something that we have to continue to name and catch and be like, oh wait no, that's diet culture.

Marla Mervis-Hartmann 09:30

Absolutely. And I love you're calling that out. I mean, it's so needed to be called out, because everyone wants to jump on this somatic train and turn it into what is going to capitalize for them, right? But that's not the point. The point is to come back to our bodies and come back to love.

Stephanie Mara 09:50

Great segue, because I wanted to come back to what you realized in your journey. It was like, oh, wait, this is about loving myself. And I know for a lot of people that feels like this elusive thing, that it's like, how do you even do that? What does that even mean to love ourselves? And I'm curious what you discovered on that path towards trying to figure out what loving yourself meant to you?

Marla Mervis-Hartmann 10:14

Yeah, well, it's such an interesting thing, right? And, I mean, I know my business is called Love Your Body, Love Yourself, right? But, and I'm even aware that that's a little triggering, and it's just like, oh, just go love yourself, and then you'll love your body. And it's like, no, that's not the point. The point is, and this is what my book is about, Befriend Yourself is the name of my book. Because when we think about love, and we think about loving ourselves, that can be a little that can be like, what like, just like you said, what does that mean? But if we put that into the concept of friendship, and we think about how we care and we love and we care for our friends, and we consider them, and we show up, and we're kind, and we say nice things, and we support them, and we see them in their best, even when they're down, right? And so all those things that I just said, if we were to do that for ourselves, and then pulling that apart even more when it comes to our food and how we are with our bodies, it's like, how do we listen? How do I listen to my body? That is an act of friendship, that is an act of care, and not just listen. Well, sometimes listening is just the first step, right? Because sometimes I hear it, and it's like, I hear you, I'm not doing it, but I'm really glad that I heard that. You know, that's sometimes the first step, and then listening and actually taking the action that, wow, whether it's eating or not eating, or whatever that that specific moment is asking for, and usually it's something around caring for our bodies and slowing down and connecting that is an act of love, that is act of friendship towards ourself.

Stephanie Mara 11:52

Yeah, and in this idea of like befriending yourself, you were pointing to seeing the best, even in our friends, even when they're struggling, even when they're perceiving themselves at their worst. And you know, I saw a social media post the other day that was like, can I also love myself when I like am at my worst, that I still deserve love and belonging and respect and to see myself at my worst and say I still deserve to be here, even if I didn't show up exactly how I wanted to today.

Marla Mervis-Hartmann 12:29

And I think that just what you said is how we heal our relationship with our body and our relationship with binge eating and emotional eating, or whatever that behavior is that we do with our food or even like we look at our bodies and our bodies aren't the way we want them to be in that moment where shame is so strong, in that moment where it is like there's nothing more disgusting than myself, right? And we've all been there. We've all had that. In that moment A: to not make any decisions from that place, because it's not the moment to make any decisions, but when we can turn that place of shame into curiosity, I think is the first step of just like, oh, how did I get here again? Oh, wow. Why am I here? What brought me to this moment? And I think curiosity allows the brain to get off the shame train and look for other things like, oh, well, I was really, really tired. Oh, and, you know, I've been going through grief or whatever the story is, right? And from curiosity, that's where that beautiful emotion of compassion starts to come in, and I see it over and over again, it's like the way to heal these things is not to fix the food, but is to when it happens, whatever it is for each of us that we exchange that shame for compassion, for curiosity to start.

Stephanie Mara 13:58

I yeah, completely agree with you on first, the piece of when you are already in a place of body shame that is not a place to make a decision. A lot we talk about here on the podcast of, like, yeah, you're in your sympathetic nervous system. You are not going to make the best decision from that place.

Marla Mervis-Hartmann 14:22

Exactly! Like, not a good idea.

Stephanie Mara 14:25

Yeah. So I'm so glad that you're naming that that it's first meeting yourself in the body image concern and bringing in that curiosity and that compassion around it, of like, oh, huh, that's really interesting that that's coming up for me right now.

Marla Mervis-Hartmann 14:40

Yeah. And it's not who I am, right? Like, when I these things that I've done with my body and with my food, and they're when I look at them, I'm like, wow, I've done some really crazy stuff, right? I've done some crazy things. But that's not me. That's a part of me that is scared or in fear. Or or upset or not feeling like I belong, or feeling in my parasympathetic nervous system. And just, you know that's not the essence of who I am. Who I am is is empowered, and my who I am is love. And it is that deep connection that that I find for myself has really been the spiritual journey of connecting my spirit and my soul to this journey. When I am connected to that part of me, then I can hold all these little smaller pieces and put things into perspective. It's when the wounding gets so big that we think that we are the wounding.

Stephanie Mara 15:37

Yeah, that is so beautifully said. I'm curious how you've guided individuals around starting to see that distinction of when maybe they're embodying their, I'll say, like core essence of they're whole and complete and not broken, and when they're embodying maybe their wounded self.

Marla Mervis-Hartmann 15:57

That is one of my specialties, and my expertise is really allowing people to understand that there's a wounding here, and when we can actually look at it and see what the story is, how this came about, where this part that is freaking out or can't, you know, I have a client right now, he just does not want to stop dieting, right? And since we've been working together, he's feeling, oh wow, like I can't diet eat, even if I wanted to. But then there's still that voice that's in him that's like, totally freaking out. And you know, we've come to realize that this is his younger, this is, like, his 14 year old self that's still not feeling safe, and so wow, when we can look at that and be like, wow, that's that's a younger piece of me, because we have so many inner characters playing, right? And for that part that is upset to not run the whole show, there's even more availability for compassion, and there's an availability to become a good friend to that part. So it's like, wow, my 14 year old, he's so upset, you know, and how can we love on him? It's kind of just a little piece of it, but there's a whole major process of going in and re-parenting and caring, and this is all somatics, and that's why I truly am so I just love the work you're doing, because it is so important, right? Especially when we're dealing with the body and we're dealing with food, which is so physical, when we just make the solutions in our head, it just doesn't work because it's it's in the tissues. I know. I'm already telling you something you already know, and everyone who's on this already knows, but I'm just saying it again. Just so important, right? And so it is that process of slowing down and unveiling and letting sometimes it's just stuck in the tissue, and it just needs a cry. And then it's like, well, that's gone for life. And here we are right, and here I am back in my beautiful self and feeling good.

Stephanie Mara 18:10

Yeah, you pointed something out really important of I find that even in the if you want to call it disordered eating or eating disorder recovery world, there's this idea that if you just get rid of the food behavior or the body behavior like that's what you have to do, and then that's where healing happens. And what I often explore, and what you're also pointing to, is that really, it actually, it isn't about that, and it never has been, and that if you're actually continuing to focus on the body image concern and trying to heal that, or the food behavior, and trying to get rid of that, that will never, ever get to the root of why these coping mechanisms came into your life initially to begin with, and that they have been doing something for your body, these parts of you, and they may not be ready to let that go yet. And so it also is coming into contact with your client like that, still wounded, hurt, inner self that needs attention, that needs to know it's safe to not do these behaviors anymore, and that there are other ways for them to be supported in the world. And then sometimes things can shift and change in the coping mechanism, but when we attack it head on, usually what I find is that the coping mechanism, food or body, just comes back even stronger because the kind of groundwork of safety wasn't put into place first.

Marla Mervis-Hartmann 19:42

Absolutely. And I think what is so special so because I've had a lot of clients who's like, I've already talked about this in therapy, like I've already gone through this whole thing. There wasn't the connection from the story to the food. So lots of therapists can hold the story or lots of people go just for the food, but to combine those and to see that, okay, here's the here's the wounding, here's where the story is. And then what are the behaviors with the food? When we when we can marry those? And sometimes it's still looking at just the story, but just the fact that food is in the room that we're talking about food, or our body image stuff is in the room, there's a connection that can be made, and someone like you and I can actually hold that connection, because we get it, and that's where I see so much healing happen when there's a holding of both of those, and there's the delicate balance of knowing when, oh no, no, we need to talk about food right now, because there's something you're doing you don't even realize is not even allowing you to get in your body. And then there's the times where we just need to really focus over here, you know, with the body, with the emotions.

Stephanie Mara 20:53

Yes, I was so somewhat frustrated when I went into my master's degree and not seeing that there isn't a single class for therapists on body image, on relationship with food, on nutrition, and it's such a huge part of I find working with a person, even if someone's focus isn't necessarily on helping someone in their relationship with food, all of these things do trickle into so many other different areas of our life. And so I've come across something actually very similar, where a lot of people come to me as well, saying, yeah, I feel like I've explored all these things, but my therapist, counselor, coach, didn't know how to hold space for how does this connect with my food behaviors? And so it's something that I find even in sessions I'm always like, even if we go off into some past story about something that happened, I always bring it back to and this is how it connects in your relationship with food, and this is how it connects to your relationship with your body image. Because, yeah, those pieces often aren't clear. Of like, okay, I get that maybe I had, you know, some trauma in my past or some difficult moments, but I'm not really clear on how that connects to why I'm relating to my food and my body this way.

Marla Mervis-Hartmann 22:07

Absolutely. And what gift, what a gift that we have. I know it doesn't feel like a gift, but for me, when I have like a food thing show up, right? Or I have, you know, what I was just sharing in my LA trip, when, if I went a little deeper, I tell, tell you a little bit deeper, like I was there for like, a book signing, I was feeling really, like a little bit nervous to be seen by a lot of people. So that was activating a little bit of that diet voice too. So for me, when the food stuff comes up and I'm like, oh, I know that there's something underneath it that I can really tend to, that is becoming my own best friend. I know myself so well that when a whisper of something or something weird happens with food, it's like, oh, okay, it's time to go in. There's something going on here.

Stephanie Mara 22:55

Yeah, I'm curious with what you share in your book and what you work on, you know, with the new year coming up, usually at this time there is an increase in, I'm gonna call it toxic Diet and Wellness Culture messaging of the new year, new you or lose fill in the blank pounds, or you need to do a detoxing cleanse from all the food that you just ate over the holiday season, really viewing everything that maybe felt joyful, pleasurable, satiating now as like the wrong or bad thing to do. I'm wondering how you would guide someone differently in your work of maybe entering into the new year in a more like befriending kind of way.

Marla Mervis-Hartmann 23:40

Yeah. Well, I think everything gets put into the category of weight. It really gets like, I'm going to lose weight and I'm going to fix my food, even if for normal eaters, right? That's what people are doing. So, so there's that longing in there, right? There's a there's a conscious collective that we're all saying we're starting this new year, and this is actually a good thing, and I want to do something nice for myself. I want to change. It's not that we're saying, don't make changes and don't long to be the better better you. But can we not put it into the context of losing weight, and can we not put in the context of our body weight. It's like, oh, maybe it's, I want to really take control of my sleep. It's like, we're looking at some of the things that we're doing that aren't around just the body and food. I want to move my body more. I know I need to move my body more. And that would be a really nice thing. So now we don't have the whip out. Now we're looking at, oh, what could be fun? Oh, what can I do? Oh, like, I'm gonna buy my, you know, going back to the sleep. I'm gonna buy myself a new pillow, and I'm gonna get that meditation app so I can lie in bed and meditate before. Like, can we do it from a from a bigger perspective and a bigger whole? Holding of that, still using that energy, which is there that we don't want to diminish, which is I wanted to do something, something I can do differently, right? This is what I find. Anything that I did to because I wanted to lose weight, never sticked. Never stuck. It didn't stay around right? The changes in my food when it came because there's something wrong with my body, and so I'm going to deprive myself. It never stayed. We want to go a little bit wider. We want to go a little bit bigger. We want to go a little more gentle.

Stephanie Mara 25:36

I love that suggestion. You know what that really points to is first normalizing the experience of of course, you want to enter into the new year with some self assessment. Like, that's such a natural thing to do, to be like, where am I at? Am I at where I want to be in my life? Like, what's going well, what's maybe not going so well, and just normalizing that experience at the check in as a human being, that we all are naturally geared towards growth and wanting to evolve and like that's okay, but diet culture has capitalized on the natural inclination that we have as human beings to want to go towards something and change in a way that actually doesn't lead us to feeling, as you kind of put it, like better, you know? It leads us into feeling, actually, usually worse about ourselves, and so kind of opening up the spectrum of okay, I can do a self assessment of where am I at in my life and my relationship with my food and my body, and what's maybe not working for me, but not from a place of that I need to fix or like that your body has to change in some way. But what are these bigger things that would actually be more in alignment of living the life that you want to live, like using your sleep example. Well, if I got better sleep, and maybe I started supporting myself and going to bed 30 minutes earlier, I'd have more stable energy the next day, and maybe I would then have more energy to move my body, which is something else I want to do, like it all kind of cascades on itself, instead of just this singular focus of if I get to the body shape that I'm told that I should have, then everything else will fall into place, which usually it doesn't work that way.

Marla Mervis-Hartmann 27:22

No, it really doesn't. And I think what we're both saying is, what's the intention? Is the intention is that we're fixing ourselves. Is the intention is, I want to care for myself. I want to be a better friend to myself, like I want to be the best that I can be from a place of love, not from a place of I'm wrong, I'm broken, I've done something, I'm bad, right? And now I'm going to be good, right? It's such an illusion.

Stephanie Mara 27:50

Yeah. And it all gets attached to the way that our body looks.

Marla Mervis-Hartmann 27:54

I know it's pretty sad and pretty upsetting, and we're all dealing with it.

Stephanie Mara 27:58

Yeah. To anyone who's listening to this just to feel for a moment that you are not alone in this experience, that it is very unfortunate that just and I know that we're mostly talking to women, I know that some men listen to this too and also struggle with their body image, because there is also very much stigma around how men are supposed to look as well in this world, but just this experience of like, yeah, every single person struggles, regardless of even if they have, like, whoever the people are that make this idealized body image, whether it be, you know, the fashion industry or the clothing industry, or whoever's doing it, every single person struggles with the way that they look and has days where it feels really hard to be in their human body.

Marla Mervis-Hartmann 28:46

And I think that points to sometimes we don't like our we may not like what we look like, but we still have the opportunity to love ourselves. We still get to have the opportunity to show up with respect, and that's really the difference between liking and loving.

Stephanie Mara 29:02

Yeah, what are the practices that you dive into with your clients around moving towards that self love?

Marla Mervis-Hartmann 29:10

Good question. I think that my approach is and the practices that I do is finding the wound is one of the things so a lot about story, but it's also I'm really finding that time in the body is so important. So some people are just so holding so much stress. And I know for myself, when I first started, I was I was not connected to my body. I used my body, I moved my body. It was very active, but I didn't know what it meant to be connected, literally from the inside. And so one of the things I love to do is to give my clients meditations, guided meditations, very specialized ones, that allow them to just ground in and connect. And sometimes that can be intense, because when we haven't met ourselves for a long time, things can come up. But when we're being held in a space of love, they can be held, they can come up, and then they can leave. I have been a Reiki Master for over 20 years, and I found Reiki early on in my so I'll share what that is. It helped me heal, and I continue to use Reiki and with everything I do. And so for those of you who are listening and don't know, Reiki is spiritual and a hands on healing modality that brings an unconditional love, and for me, in these moments where we can't access love for ourselves, right, or in these moments where we don't have the right coping mechanisms, Reiki has been so super helpful. So I bring that into everything that I do, right? It is in the field. I send Reiki to my clients on a regular basis, right? And so I have found that spiritual connection is so important, because when we're trying to do this all on our own and we think that we're in control, it can make the hard moments even harder. So really the encouragement to surrender to what you know you can call God or universe. And what I often like to say, it's a high vibration of love, a higher vibration of love that sometimes I can access in the moment. But I know it's there. It's there, right? And when I just call and I pray or I ask and I open up my heart, it's like that shows up. And the what miracles can happen in these moments where we allow this energy in?

Stephanie Mara 31:44

Yeah. So there's a couple things that I hear in that. First one, this experience of embodiment that I find sounds so simple in theory, but so difficult in practice, and that sometimes focusing on the body's appearance can feel like, well, I'm so in touch with my body. I'm focusing on my body all the time. And you know, when we're focusing on the external appearance of our body, yeah, it can feel like, well, yeah, I'm always focusing on my body, but kind of like what you were pointing to, and I've actually been saying this, you know, more to those I work with, of like, how do we live from the inside out of there's feeling and sensing and reactions, and how do we be with our internal world? And that sometimes that does quiet the inner dialogue around what the body looks like. Because if we're trying to find some sense of, let's say, safety, from getting our body to look a certain way, when we actually take time to be with ourselves and what's there, we get the safety that we're looking for without a body change needed. So I think that what you pointed to is really important of just this embodiment piece, and then it actually is really, really difficult, especially when you've maybe spent years and decades away from connecting with your body. And how much can arise when you actually start dropping into it.

Marla Mervis-Hartmann 33:19

Yeah, and I think the catalyst to make that happen, what I noticed for myself is pleasure. I went on a deep journey into realizing that a lot of my pain around my body image and food was came from some, you know, old sexual violation. And so I just went into like healing that, and I learned Tantra, and I studied and I I got comfortable with being a sensual, sexual human being, and from that place, when these moments where I felt so good, like, I can just remember, I just I just can remember having, like, the most amazing orgasm I've ever had in my life. And it was like, full body like, and I was high, walking around just like, I'm like, it has nothing to do with what my body looks like. I can hold so much pleasure that just completely changed my relationship with my body as it's not about what it looks like externally, it's about that I am like, I can hold so much pleasure. Now I have to say that that being able to hold pleasure can be really scary because we're so used to pain, and it's such a journey to be able to hold more pleasure. And I don't mean sexual I mean anything like that's why sometimes it's so hard to sit and enjoy that yummy piece of cake because it's so pleasurable, brings up so much, right? And over time, when we get rid of the stress around it, we can actually enjoy it and enjoy life, right? When I'm not in this constant oh my gosh, I ate too much, my body doesn't look the right way. I'm so tense and there's no pleasure available, and there's no I'm, you know, I live in Maui, and I've said so many times like, if I'm gonna live here, I have to be in the zone of appreciation, because this place is beautiful, right? And I know 20 years ago, I would not be able to hold that.

Stephanie Mara 35:16

Yeah. Something that I'd like to talk about here is sometimes when we start to feel pleasure or safety or joy or happiness that initially that is going to feel very uncomfortable, because our body is just not used to experiencing that. It's just not a sensation that it has practice being with and so it does also take time, like I hear you took the time and explored lots of different modalities to be with how much pleasure your body can hold in all sorts of different ways. And that's just as important part of the journey as being comfortable with the sadness, the anger, the frustration, the anxiety, the worry, I find a lot of these conversations go towards, yeah, we need to build capacity to be with like all of those things and grief. And we also have to get used to how joyful and pleasurable we can feel in our bodies as well, to be able to show up for all of it.

Marla Mervis-Hartmann 36:20

Yeah. How good can we stand it, right? How good can we stand it without that voice coming in that says, when is your shoe gonna drop? And even when that voice does come in, it's like, oh, I know you. I know you voice that wants to say that, right? And I'm just gonna stay right here in this moment, enjoy it.

Stephanie Mara 36:38

Yeah. Oh my gosh. I say the exact same thing where it's like, oh, hello, you're here. I know you. You're so familiar.

Marla Mervis-Hartmann 36:48

But in those small moments, it's not, you know, I kind of, I gave a kind of a quintessential moment of like, having an amazing full body orgasm and having that but I think it is actually in those small moments where we choose pleasure. And I mean, for me, it's that last bite that I'm eating of my dinner that I don't eat it, put it in my mouth and then get up and wash my dish, that I'm actually allowing myself the pleasure of that last bite, those certain moments over time. It's like a muscle, and the body begins to look for that the same way the body looks for reasons to be upset or sad or angry.

Stephanie Mara 37:33

Yeah, you know, I know, I've been exploring with a lot of people recently around savoring the moment of when you feel that pleasure, that safety, that joy, that there will be grief that comes in as it starts to dissipate, and we can stay with the grief as long as we need to. But I also find that there's an important part of bringing in trust that that is not the last time that you will feel that way. I know that there's kind of this, this deep sadness or longing or even fear or panic that can come up in those moments of oh my gosh, but what if this is the last time that I will feel good? You know, especially if you have a history where there were periods of your life where you did feel really, really good, and then something very unexpected happened, and it did feel like that other shoe dropped, that it makes sense that that would come up, and it's kind of like what we were just talking about saying, like, oh, I see you. I see you fear trying to take my pleasure away from me. You want to protect me from how good this feels right now, because it's going to feel maybe so painful to say goodbye to this, but even to bring in that trust of like, this is not the last time I will feel this way. I find kind of softens the moment of like, yeah. I can be and savor the pleasure. I can be with the sadness that's also here as it dissipates, and I can also be with the trust that this will return.

Marla Mervis-Hartmann 38:55

Yeah. And we're never stuck in the same place. We are always in a season. And so sometimes we're in the season of sadness, and sometimes we're in the season of aliveness. And so when we think about any situation that we're in, knowing that it's a season, or it is a moment, and that's okay, and I think about that when I you know, people think that they can just stop, you know, binge eating, or stop the behavior, and then it comes back, and then they've done it wrong. You know, that's what the thought is like, oh, I thought I fixed this, and now I'm binging again, or I'm emotional eating. I thought I fixed this, now I'm dieting again. And I think it touches on what you're saying, because kind of from the other angle, but just touching upon, like, we can go longer and longer feeling good, right? It's like, oh, wow. Like, I can remember when I would, like, I couldn't go a day without not liking my body. And then all of a sudden I would gather more and more days, and all of a sudden it was like six months, and then it was a year. And then all sudden it was back. Right? And it was like, oh, where? Oh my gosh, it's back, right? And it's like, it's just here for a moment, right? I can work with this to come back to that pleasure again, right? And so we're really learning the muscle of holding more, but when something does come back, that doesn't mean that it's here to stay, and that we have the power and that we have the resources and that we know, and this is why this podcast is good, because we know that we can get the support to move through that, and that is so key.

Stephanie Mara 40:40

I agree. I've been very, very, very passionate lately about really having people understand that they're not broken, that sometimes when you're struggling so much with your food in your body, there's just this predominant voice that says that something is horribly wrong with you, and there's has to be something that you can fix.

Marla Mervis-Hartmann 41:02

Oh it just makes me so sad. It makes me so it just makes me want to gather everyone up and just hug them, right? And my younger self too, it's so sad because it's so not true, and that in those moments where we feel broken is that's where we need that compassion to come in. It's like, wow, here I am again feeling this way. Oh, I just feel myself so much.

Stephanie Mara 41:29

Yeah, I completely agree with that in those moments, is just meeting yourself with not even trying to fix the part of you that says that you need to be fixed. Like, if you could even think of a child coming to you and saying, like, I think there's something wrong with me, you know. Like, how would you meet that child? And what would you feel if a child came to you and said something like that, and that you can start to practice meeting yourself in that very similar way of, wow, there is a part of me that feels like I am broken. And can I meet that part of me, and can I hold space for them, and can I hug them and understand that? Wow, that means that there is probably a very hurt part of me that was made to believe that about themselves.

Marla Mervis-Hartmann 42:12

Yeah. And then when it's calm, then we can look at the situation from a bigger standpoint and be like and that part of me that felt broken, it needs help. There is an aspect of, I wouldn't say, truth. There is an aspect of the authenticity of there's an aspect of me that needs support. There's an aspect of me that I need help with. And then from that place, then we're clear to see what we actually need. But I know we already said this earlier. We're bringing it back around. We can't make that decision from the broken part of ourselves. It's just going to spiral in.

Stephanie Mara 42:50

Yeah. You know, I always, as we move towards wrapping up, like to offer people a baby step, and all the things that we've been exploring today, around befriending oneself, around even becoming aware of the wounded self. You know, what would be a baby step you feel like someone could take on this journey to start to come into this more compassionate, curious relationship with themselves?

Marla Mervis-Hartmann 43:13

Yeah, well, I think looking at how we talk to ourselves is so important. And I think that the way that we talk to ourselves, it's not something just to say stop talking mean to ourselves, if we're staying in this theme that we're talking about, it's to look at the voices that are speaking and A. notice that they're there, because sometimes they're so ingrained we don't even realize we're saying these really mean things. But if you were to really slow that down, and if you were really to say, Why am I saying that to myself? Who is saying that to me? What's that about? Right? So turning and looking at it from curiosity, rather than allowing that voice to run the show, I think it will change so many things, even the awareness of it will help us to realize, listeners here, to realize that there is a way to be with that in another way. And so I would start there, and then, is there a way to be friends to that part of you? Right? Like, what does that part need? And, you know, sometimes, you know, I've had parts of me is just like, really mad at me, and it's like, you know, I've had full on conversations. And listen, we're always having conversations with ourselves, so why don't we just do it in a really like way that will support us rather than bring us down?

Stephanie Mara 44:36

Yes, yes, yes, yes. If these parts have been kind of yelling at us for a really long time through our body image concerns and our food behaviors, might as well just turn around and start talking to them and be like, hey, what's up? What you trying to tell me, yeah, what's going on there? And then from that, I mean, there's, I mean, there's such a depth that you can go into that. Right? And sometimes that needs some support to go there I found for myself and for my clients, yeah, well, love that baby step. So important just to start to becoming aware of these internal dialogs that are happening, and I'm wondering, like, how people can keep in touch with you, the work you're doing and also your book.

Marla Mervis-Hartmann 45:19

Yes, so I'm on, loveyourbodyloveyourself.com. And you're going to find everything there. I have a free breaking the cycle of emotional eating, course, that you can go there. You can get my book there. Going to be doing a book club, and I tell you what, you don't want to do the whole dieting thing. You want to do something nice to yourself come January. You can join my book club. We can go through the book together and you find another way.

Stephanie Mara 45:45

Yeah, that's awesome. And I will leave all those links in the show notes and just thank you so much for being here and sharing your wisdom and your journey. You know I also hear you have learned so much along your path, and have also, you know, opened up your capacity to be with more of yourself, and I see that come through so much that I'm sure that you're doing just like really important, wonderful work with those that you also work with to to help them expand their capacity. So just thank you also for doing the work that you're doing in the world is really important.

Marla Mervis-Hartmann 46:18

Thank you for that. Stephanie, I appreciate that.

Stephanie Mara 46:21

Yeah, well, to everyone listening as always, if you have any questions, I will leave our contact information in the show notes. Thank you so much for being here, and I hope you all have a satiating and safety producing rest of your day. Bye!

Keep in touch with Marla:

Befriend Yourself Book: https://amzn.to/42jDGrO
Website: www.LoveYourBodyLoveYourself.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/loveyourbodyloveyourselfalways
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/loveyourbodyloveyourself