Astrology and Discovering Star Solutions to Your Food Struggles
I have always had a fascination with astrology. I loved reading my daily horoscope growing up and had such pride in being an Aries sun sign. Then, much later when I worked at a drop in center for at risk and homeless youth, one of my coworkers also had a passion for astrology and our conversations fostered my love for astrology even more. When I deferred going to Graduate School after getting out of a relationship that, at the time, felt like it had broken my spirit, I dabbled in learning more about astrology and reading other people's charts. When I moved out to Colorado to start Graduate School, I was searching for ways to connect with others and build community. I was at a yoga festival where I met Debra Silverman and she invited me to attend her weekly astrology classes that she held at her house. I started going every single week.
I've known Debra now for about 14 years so I was overjoyed when she agreed to come on the podcast and chat about the connection between food behaviors and different astrological signs. Debra is an astrologer, psychotherapist, and author of the book The Missing Element. She has developed a unique psychological-spiritual model, combining her expertise in soul-centered astrology with her extensive education in psychology to help those going through major life changes, especially in crisis. Over the past 45+ years of professional experience and private practice, she has specialized in helping thousands of individuals achieve emotional health and wisdom based on their unique personality and the four elements: water, air earth, and fire. We chat about what signs and chart placements can indicate struggles with food, the high road expression and the low road expression of any sign, the importance of self- compassion, the potential for healing and growth, and you're going to learn a lot more about me as Debra references my chart to explain some of what she's talking about.
If you love today's conversation, join Debra's Astrological Immersion. It's a FREE month-long spiritual bootcamp that happens twice a year, in the summer and winter, with tons of free Astrological and psychotherapeutic content, as well as a live 6-day event with incredible guests. I'll leave the link to sign up in the show notes. Now, welcome Debra! I am so excited to have you here today and to reconnect with you. You know, I was just about to write before I press record, share that I met you right when I moved to Boulder, Colorado, and I was at a yoga festival and you were there. And so this was back in probably like 2010.
Debra Silverman 03:17
That's right. The Hanuman festival and I was the keynote speaker.
Stephanie Mara 03:21
Yes, yes, you were. And I feel like you're such a part of my story because, this is another story for another time, but my husband who I met online texted me when I was at your house at a Wednesday night astrology class. And so I feel like you're so integrated into like, the first time he ever reached out to me and texted me and was like, hey, do you want to hang out? Like, I was with you.
Debra Silverman 03:48
Destiny. One of those Destiny moments.
Stephanie Mara 03:50
Yeah. So we're gonna talk about all things astrology today. And I actually don't know much about your backstory.
Debra Silverman 03:58
Ya know, I always wanted to steal you and stick you in that class room. I was just looking at your chart and going she would be so good at this.
Stephanie Mara 04:06
Yeah, I know. You know, I've always had such a deep passion for astrology. And I'm curious how you got into astrology. Like, I don't know much about your history and like, you have just built this huge empire of just teaching astrology to so many people and how did this even find you?
Debra Silverman 04:26
Well, it's funny you say that because it was actually a Tuesday night class that I did for probably 10 years in my living room that helped me design the school. So you were part of that as well. It started at a very young age. This is one of the questions you can imagine I get asked a lot because I do podcasts from here to there all the time. And it's a silly story. I was 10 years old looking through the Detroit comics and I saw an ad for astrology. I was a little girl. And I wrote in and I got my first chart and it was clearly a destiny line, just like you meeting your husband, just like you listening to this podcast. Nothing's random. It doesn't happen by mistake, we unfortunately have minds that think that this world is logical. And it's got some logic in it said the astrologer who loves numbers. But the truth is, this world is magic. And astrology, for me, was my destiny imprint at a very young age. By the time I was in high school, all the kids I knew to this day, I'm about to have my 50th high school reunion, to this day, I can look around, and just be so funny, like you have Moon in Aries, you have Moon in Gemini, like why do I remember it because I have some kind of mental illness about astrology. And it came as a promise that I would share it in this world. So there's many of you in the room that are listening that you don't know your destiny, and you feel really confused about what you're supposed to be doing. And food is one of the greatest distractions, anything to do with addiction is a symptom of the discomfort in the body that says I don't feel comfortable. I don't feel wanted. I don't feel needed. I don't feel like I'm on the right street, and astrology is one of the shortcuts. I mean, it's kind of crazy that it gives people especially in the school because after they finished just level one, there's just a short six week class, they're like, I get letters from people's husbands saying, she's finally back, she's being so happy again. She's nice. It's the return to your authentic self, which is a well worn word here in Boulder. But there's truth to it, that astrology gives people back to them. And it started for me so young, and I am still obsessed as I move towards 70. It's kind of crazy.
Stephanie Mara 06:27
Yeah, you already started to go there, and just how much wisdom there is in our food behaviors. We talk a lot about that here on the podcast. And what I have found even in the years that I was reading charts a little bit more, that there is this overlap in so many signs and ways in our chart shows us what kind of relationship we might have with food, and how food might be used in particular ways to maybe disembody. I'm curious about this connection between maybe what you've seen of certain charts or certain signs that reveal a different relationship with food just based off of what you were born with.
Debra Silverman 07:13
Okay, so should I tell you you have it? So you're asking the question about what in astrology describes food attention, food disorders, addictive qualities, and it is real that is 100% real. So the first thing I'm going to say which is a classical is the combination of Taurus and Scorpio. That is, especially if they're together, you just have a very strong Scorpio. It's the part in all of us that is emotionally oriented to look for both comfort and pain. It's a very strange thing that built into the human psyche through the doorway of Scorpio, we have a sabotager. So on one hand, it's sexual and it's delicious, and it's intense pleasure and it's turning up the volume. On the other hand, it could be hurting oneself being self destructive and not knowing when to stop. So that conversation with food where you're feeling emotionally distraught and you don't know what it is you're feeling which is classical water signs, Cancer is susceptible to this, Taurus is susceptible, so is a negative experience of Saturn, which you have in your chart, which is the pressure to be the best and to get it right. And that adds this internal Gremlins kind of like a whole collection of them saying mean things. And then food is used to find a way to soothe or distract or numb. And those are the signs cancer, pisces, scorpio. Which you have a lot of pisces, I don't know if you knew that, and a lot of scorpio and it's also positioned in your chart, you were born at midnight, which is the very bottom. So if you imagine if someone's born at noon, the sun is up in the sky, and they're dealing with the public outside world. Externalization. But you're born at midnight when we're going to sleep and it's the internal world of like, I don't even know what I'm feeling. Why am I feeling this? There's a bad event that happens with a neighbor and you're suddenly in a mood. And you're like wait. So the moodiness that comes with your chart can lead that's another one that can lend itself to food disorders because you're either lonely feeling unbelievably sad, thinking it's you. The human condition is a very painful state. Let's start there. So they never tell you this, that even birth which is cancer, the sign of cancer. You come in and you scream and yell, think about the mom is screaming and yelling, and the dad is scared shitless, and the baby's like ow ow ow, that's how we get here. So that implies to the body we're in shock, we're scared, we're not feeling love. We've got the wrong mom. She's not holding me. My emotional body thinks I'm on the wrong planet. But I can't say it out loud because it's also embarrassing because of am I psychologically damaged or is this just the human condition? Oh, let's not talk about it. So secrets because they have a food disorder you cannot tell people that you're obsessing and secrets in astrology, scorpio, cancer and pisces. Taurus has a low self esteem so they look at their bodies and they go, yuck, no matter how, I always hear as an elder, I always hear people say, when I look at photos of me when I was younger, I had such a beautiful body. But you could have fooled me, because no one knew the internal dialogue of a beautiful young woman is so dangerous. So what we're really talking about is the high road of the signs and the low road and the low road of scorpio is to hurt themselves. Go figure. The high road of Scorpio is the healer is what you are, that said, I've been there, I know it. And furthermore, I can create a system to assist you to not have to hurt yourself so that you become the heroine because you've been there. And now you're taking us into the overview and giving us the what I call the observer, like the high road, how to get out. So anyone that's dealing with food issues, is simply a person that's emotionally sensually hungry for feeling comfort, and they don't know how to self comfort and they're secret keepers. That's a big one. Would you echo that?
Stephanie Mara 11:02
Oh, absolutely. Yeah, we talk a lot about that here as well of just how much disordered eating or eating disorders they breed in the darkness. And so the more that you keep that behavior to yourself, the more it's done in secret, the more that it's not shared with other people openly about this is what you're struggling with, the more it grows, because it's not getting coregulation with anyone else. It's not being empathized or received compassion with. So yeah, I really hear you about this piece of keeping it in the dark, there is a very secretiveness around disordered eating behaviors. And that there's wisdom to it, because it is trying to support you in navigating a very sensitive body, or growing up in an environment that didn't meet your emotional needs. And so you found a way to navigate that by yourself.
Debra Silverman 12:02
Exactly. This is so clear. And in astrology, because I'm also a psychotherapist, I have a master's in clinical psychology. So when you combine astrology with the psychological imprint to your point about your childhood, then you begin to say, Oh, let me show because I've just written a new book, everything's about the high road and the low road, and the low road of scorpio's mean and the low road of cancer's super, I mean it's named after a disease. And the low road of pisces is I'm so confused, I can't talk about it. And you have a lot of pisces, it's the imaginary dreamer, who makes shit up, I call it MSU, making shit up, as a school pisces. And they start to scare the shit out of themselves. And so food becomes their secret way. That's their little weapon. So I, as a dancer, my first half of my career was dancers. And there's a lot of people with food disorders in dancing. I mean, you're constantly in a leotard, and you're constantly being watched, and you're even being judged by your body type. And I learned very young that I had to really do the work of positive affirmation. I love this body. And I really love what feels like being in one. Because I didn't. I was also a gymnast, there was just too much attention. And it became a maturing process, which I'm sure you're very good at, your chart by the way blossoms as you get older. You were old when you were young, and you'll be young when you're old like me. Like people are always like you're not 70. I'm like, excuse me. But the reason why is because I learned how to eat, to drink water, to exercise every day, I use the four elements, I have a book that you may know called the missing element. You take a little test, it takes five minutes, and you figure out your missing element. Mine was earth like I didn't know how to ground. I'm a little airhead. You tell me that I'm supposed to be able to feel comfortable in this body when I'm feeling nervous all the time, because I can't get the shit done. Well, I've changed all that said the elder. Now I'm really good at Earth. And my body's gotten a very calm inner world, but this is a skill set. You guys can learn. If you suffer from anxiety, from nervousness, or social anxiety, depression, all of that is the body trying to scream, what about me?
Stephanie Mara 14:10
Yeah, and I love how you're bringing in just this piece of hope. You know, I find that some people who look at their chart feel a little bit discouraged, like, oh, no, what do I do about this, but it's just information. It's just potentially like, hey, here's what you were born with, here's what you're working with, but there's so much hope that it's like, okay, how do I learn how to work with this? Not that this is just like set in stone and nothing's ever gonna change.
Debra Silverman 14:36
Yes. And you're such a good example. I have this memory of you of just like the suffering. Food is a, I don't know if the right word is illness, but as a fixation, is very distracting. I have a client friend who really secretly suffers and it's been going on for so long. And that is the sense of the wrong version of interpreting your chart and thinking I'm so bad, something's wrong with me, I'm never gonna get this healed, you don't understand because you're not here. And then the flip side of that is hold on a minute, every single pain threshold that you have is the soil in which wisdom is gonna grow. It comes out of pain. I don't know who made that up. I mean, really, I could change that formula, but doesn't no one listens. So something about, we learned when we are in our childhood, I'm just doing a workshop in July about how your childhood specifically feeds your purpose. So being neglected as a kid or not have to your point not having your needs met, that's what you signed up for. But they don't tell you that. It's like "I don't like my lesson. This is so dumb. They're so mean to me." Well, excuse me somewhere you volunteered for this position. And by the way, they didn't push you on the bus. This was a volunteer position in case you're wondering.
Stephanie Mara 14:36
Yeah, I'm curious about if someone was going to look up their chart, let's say at astro.com or something like that and they wanted to look out for like, what is potentially fueling for myself this food behavior, what might they be looking out for?
Debra Silverman 16:06
Oh, great. Okay, so you have it in your chart, surprise. The fourth house, you know, I happen to have your chart in front of me and you have two planets in the fourth house. The fourth house rules cancer and rules the childhood wound, it impacts and it creates a need for comfort which is often food. That's one. Two, if you've got a strong Saturn in which you also have on the body and the first house cusp if something in the first house is the body as distinct from the fourth house, which is the childhood imprint, they're different conversations. So there's two spots. The conversation anyone anyone that has Taurus Scorpio opposite each other, you have Scorpio but to have Taurus opposite, they are foodies. And they wake up in the morning and they think about what they want to eat. I don't have it but I certainly see it in people. I never think about food I forget to eat. I have to remind, today because we were doing this, I pulled out the avocados like I'm going to do this in honor of Stephanie. I'm going to eat something because I'm an airhead. But for people that are bound by their emotions, water signs, cancer, pisces scorpio, taurus, virgo, capricorn. Virgo too, they have a very hard relationship with the acceptance of the body. So first house is the body, fourth house is the emotional body, water signs, earth signs, and the opposition of Taurus and Scorpio I can give a pretty much guarantee the person is going to go yeah, I think about food when no one's looking like they're having lunch and I don't know if you're one of these people, there's people that eat to live, there's people that live to eat, I do not live to eat. That is not my thing. I eat to live, I have to do it. But those people that love it, and they think about it, and they prepare it, I have a friend who travels and looks for restaurants as the gauge for where she's going. That's a foodie. And that would be those earth people and you you have that fourth house. It's difficult to answer that question. Because as a beginner, if you're going to astro.com and looking up your chart, you know, I'm a matchmaker. I have certified 25 astrologers. And I look at your chart. Oh my god, I just said I looked up 25 astrologers, and the lights went off. Did you see that?
Stephanie Mara 18:12
Yeah I did.
Debra Silverman 18:13
That wasn't my imagination?
Stephanie Mara 18:17
No, I saw that too.
Debra Silverman 18:18
I don't know what I did to make that happen but I loved it. I matchmake people by looking at your chart and then giving you the right astrologer. And there's some astrologers who really sympathize with the empaths with this highly sensitive beings with the ones who are self conscious. And there's a different conversation than for me who's like an airhead and moving at the speed of light and forgets to eat that's we're in totally different. That's what I love about astrology is your conversation and your podcast is not a surprise by looking at your chart. This is what you came to teach us by your own direct experience. And those people who are longing to understand your question, how do I get to astro.com and look? I suggest go for your first astrology reading. Let me hook you up with a certified Astrologer I've trained who's the real thing. Because there's a lot of astrologers, I talk English, I don't talk jargon, because if I start talking to you, which I did, actually, today, I don't even like saying the fourth house, the first house because you're like the what? I don't have a fourth house. Yes, you do. Stephanie, your whole that whole house is lit up. And that's the house of the Mother, the caretaker, and the compassionate one that absorbs other people's pain. Am I right? Or am I right?
Stephanie Mara 19:28
Yeah, I mean, I think I've been pretty open here about how empathetic I am and with those that I work with one on one. I think I put something up on social media the other day that just talking about how I really believe that the best practitioners continue to work with other people and continue to explore within themselves so that the deeper you go within yourself, the more space you can hold for other people. And so I find that a lot of people I work with can feel, how depths I can go, how deep I can go with them because I've gone really deep within myself.
Debra Silverman 20:04
That's your scorpio, that's your moon in scorpio. You have this healer, the healer goes down and comes up and puts the light on to get us out from under there, you know exactly how to traverse there. So, I'm gonna encourage you to check in with Stephanie, like one piece of the astrology understanding your destiny, your purpose for being here, what the propensities are, another is actually doing the work where you interrupt. Why is it that this fixation won't go away? Oh, that's right. There's a whole technology that's I can guarantee that Stephanie, yes, because your chart is so ambitious, you have two planets in capricorn.
Stephanie Mara 20:38
Yes. I'm wondering just for a second, because I know we're touching on food, but I've been doing currently while we're recording this, I'm in a month long focus on body image. And this will come out later. But I'm even wondering about I'm imagining there are some signs that have a very difficult time getting embodied being in relationship with their body. I'm wondering if there's any crossovers there.
Debra Silverman 21:03
Totally. So obviously, virgo spends their life criticizing even if they're like I had international models come and do a series of readings. I was in London, they were almost all virgo. Virgo is the perfect looking person, but boy, did they have body images. I'm like, excuse me. They're not putting the camera on you and giving you all this money because your stupid thigh is not in the right or you have a birthmark. One lady told me can't you see this is like a like, what are we talking about? So Virgo can be interruptive. Pisces, which is what you have, they don't see the reality. They're just, you know, they're dystopic their bodies, what they see is not what's real. So they have to be regulated. Pisces has to check in and go, does that look like I have a really big belly and they're like, no one noticed, honey, you're all making this up. It's just a tip. So Pisces, for sure. Virgo for sure. Capricorn has, especially Capricorn rising as a soul because the rising sign is the soul. They really judge their body and they have the best body. But this is the craziest part. I always say to Virgos I'm not even interested in your opinion because you're gonna make me nuts, you're going to tell me the wrong answer. And I'm going to insert for you that you can't be trusted because you're making shit up. And so that's another sign Pisces, Virgo, Capricorn. And I would say Taurus really suffer, we may be repeating ourselves, but there's just classical, I'd say that Libras get fixated on wishing they were different, but secretly really liking the way they look, but not knowing how to have enough self esteem to own that. But they have a great regard for their visual. So there's a lot of signs. Sagittarius has got a definite self conscious, you have this for a rising sign. Because they love to eat so much. Oh, my God, they always want a little bit more. And one more drink. Can we just have one more. And then they realized afterwards, I was having way too much fun. So they have a problem. That's funny to think about. Sagittarians often go out in and they lose weight and gain weight and play that diet game, which is very painful, as you know.
Stephanie Mara 23:01
Yeah. I mean, I can definitely hear little pieces that you're talking about, of just even in my evolution, I find there was a lot more focus on the live to eat maybe in my early 20s. But that very much transformed over time. And this is why like healing work and like looking at yourself, your chart isn't set in stone and the way it expresses itself is going to evolve and change; is that it was like okay, so this is trying to serve me in some way. What is that trying to do for me? How are these different parts of even my chart playing out? And you know, is that the way that I resonate with being in relationship with my body and in my life? No, it wasn't where I wanted to stay. And so now it's definitely more I have to eat so I can live. Like that ambition you were talking about. There's so many things that I want to do in this world and experience in this world that you need food, and to consistently feed yourself to do all of those things. And so yeah, just share from my personal experience of all that it's allowed to change because it's still my chart expressing itself. But like you said, there's the high road and the low road, and it's expressing itself in a very high way.
Debra Silverman 24:12
That's so good to hear. It says so much about your, how old are you?
Stephanie Mara 24:16
I just turned 38 in March.
Debra Silverman 24:18
So exciting. And that's what I want to say also to your audience as an elder, that the older you get, the more this was one of the big definitions defining moments of being an elder is when you say I don't really care, and you start to release the attachments of other people. So the wrinkles start, so the boobs hang, so the hair falls out, so the body goes slow. All that becomes an endearment. I mean, I'm loving aging. Once I figured out what you're talking about is how do I do the inner work and the self kindness and the compassion and I've gotten really I'm going to have to say in this is obviously when you get head towards 70 for god's sake if it's not happening now shoot me that there is some genuine compassion for the human condition. That's the subtitle of my book. It's called the missing element. The subtitle is compassion for the human condition, because you can't get it right here. And you are going to go down to go up, and your childhood will imprint you with something ouchy. And you won't get your needs met, until you wake up inside the dream when you go, oh, I listen to this podcast with Stephanie and Debra, and I'm realizing that I am not applying compassion. And I don't even know what she's talking about. And how do I get that voice inside my head to shut the fuck up? Oh, I can't find the off button. Well, that's right. Something about therapy, spirituality, meditation, listening, deeply praying, asking for help. These are the medicines to everything. That's what I found.
Stephanie Mara 25:43
Something I remember you teaching a lot is saying, like, get out of your own way. Even when I've done like, one on one sessions with you just like get out of your own way. I'm wondering if you could speak more to that of like, how do we do that? How do we get out like, I've learned it for myself, but I'm curious from your perspective.
Debra Silverman 26:01
It's the observer. So my everything I do my book, my next book, my teaching to the school, when the astrology stands up off the planet, and uses the description of the human condition with the stars in tandem, you're observing, you're out of your own way, because now you're stepping out of your ego and into your awareness. And you're going wow, I am such a wreck. When I see those Oreo cookies, I cannot just have one. Okay, well, that's true. The Observer doesn't judge. It's not criticizing you. It's not even giving you instructions. It's just noticing you love Oreo cookies. Now that's different than you're such a little piglet. And by the way, you look so fat, I noticed this more like, no, it's none of that. It's just oh, you love Oreo cookies. And when you're around them, you're kind of dangerous, because you get kind of silly. So permission to have the observer. And this is how you get out of your way. Just practice, simply review, report, don't make it wrong, like, wow, you have a real issue with that guy, every time he's around, it triggers you into some kind of behavior that I don't even recognize, no judgment, no attempt to change. Then you go to your therapist, and you say, you know what I've noticed about myself, I have no off. But that's different than something's wrong with me and I and he made me feel, stop it, no more blaming, no more aiming at other people, you start to say, with your observer, I'm out of my own way. And I'll tell you the truth, I have a problem. And I can feel it, I'm not calm, or I have a lot of anxiety, and I don't know what to do. And I'm too scared to ask for help. That's so beautiful. It's so neutral. It's so honest, it's so authentic. And that begins getting out of your own way. But if you have an internal dialogue, that's mean, this is my whole life's work. I change the internal dialogue by you learning the high road of your chart. If you're a Scorpio, and you've got a negative sabotager, who really doesn't like you. That's because you're a healer. And you came to get acquainted with that, to come up and out to your observer, get out of your way, and then teach us just like Stephanie's done this life. It's what you're doing.
Stephanie Mara 28:00
Yeah, thanks for sharing all that. I find that that witness is so important. And it's something that I do reference, maybe not as much here. But those that I work with, it's like, we have to start observing like, okay, so you have this urge to do this food behavior, can you actually start to become a witness to the behavior that it's okay that the behavior and the urge are even present, so you can start to meet yourself with compassionate curiosity and just be like, yeah, what is this feeling? What is this experience? And actually come closer to yourself in that behavior that you want to do.
Debra Silverman 28:35
And be the mom that you didn't have, like, be interested, ask her, no judgement, reducing judgments to the fact that every human I know, wanna hear this, this is going to crack you up the name of the book that I just finished, I wanted to call it you're fucked up and I still like you, but they wouldn't let me. The actual name of the book is the I don't believe in astrology book. But what I really want to say and it's all through the book is, yeah, you have a part of you that has a food disorder, you have a part of you that really can't get that addiction under control, or, or you're depressed and it won't go away. That's so beautiful, to say it out loud. And that's the observer getting out of its way with instead of saying shhhhh, you are not telling anybody this, and you're never gonna get better. And your mom was all fucked up, too. So why do you think you're going to be happy?
Stephanie Mara 29:23
Yeah, I love that. Just this aspect of oftentimes, when we feel like we're struggling, we view it as the problem to be fixed. Instead of saying, wow, I'm a human being that's really struggling right now. And can I come closer to myself in the struggle?
Debra Silverman 29:39
So beautiful. I wish I could be a mom when no one's looking. I've always wished I was Casper the ghost, and I could sneak in people's houses and they wouldn't see me and then I would sneak in the house when I see you worrying and I'd say you know what, you're gonna eat this tonight and you're gonna have the best time eating it and you're gonna have to deal tomorrow, the guilt or whatever that is, and I want you to know that I'm gonna love you through this. And by the way, can I give you a hug? We live in a very, as you know, we have these funny things. We're doing it right now. It's not touching anymore. I've just fallen in love in the last six months. And I'm like, I feel a little self conscious. Because I'm constantly touched. I feel like I think I'm on like a starvation diet that I'm just feeling like I was missing. That's why we have dogs and cats and babies, "tell me that you love me and give me a cuddle." That's a big part of food and issues with food is they're centralist people who have a high need for intimacy, contact, sensation, sensuality, but they don't get fed. So they feed themselves.
Stephanie Mara 30:38
I love the correlation that you're making there of I was just exploring this recently of where is it that you're actually hungry? Because like when you even said just way earlier on around, you know, we come out into this world and babies and we're crying and we're screaming and we're scared. I often explore like, those wires for physical and emotional hunger get crossed, right from the get go of like, you know, baby comes out and the first soothing that they often get is often like a bottle or breast milk. And so this connection is made of if I'm not getting the attunement, the affection, the love that I need, oh, well, I know food can provide that similar experience. I had that from the moment I came into this world.
Debra Silverman 31:23
And this was back to the observer, like when I became aware of the free will button. See, we don't know we have a free will button. That's the observer. If your egos fully engaged, raise your hand if you have an ego, look, everyone's raising their hand. We all have ego. If the ego is fully engaged in operating without your free will because it's on automatic, it is hungry. The ego is starving. Do you like me? Am I pretty? Am I successful? Will I ever have a relationship? Is my kid going to take care of itself? Am I doing the right job? All that's ego. Instead of, ready? Your rising sign and you're so lucky, because you're Sagittarius. The rising sign, just want to make sure I'm not saying is that true? Yes, that's true.
Stephanie Mara 32:03
That's true. Yeah, my rising sign is Sagittarius.
Debra Silverman 32:05
When I do C-sections and people call me because they have the option to choose what time their baby's born. I always give them Sagittarius rising. Time describes the rising sign. So I look at the chart and I go you have it's the best, it's not good to begin with because they're indulgent and their wild and they're being contracted because people are mad at them. Or they feel self conscious a lot. They bump into things and they're blunt, and they're, but as they mature, they become wisdom keepers. And they're funny, and they think everything's funny, and that what a great part of life. Okay, back to, I think the single ingredient in astrology that I'd like to leave your audience with is which no one ever talks about, it's back to this last point is the rising sign is your soul. So if your ego is driving you nuts and everyone's is, the medicine is look at your rising sign go to astro.com. It's called ASC, that's shortened for ascendant, there are two words rising and descendent are the same, because you're rising into it. It's your higher self. That's where the observer lives. That's where calm lives. And that's where free will lives. Not in the ego, the ego has no free will it's being run by a computer for the dark forces. I just made that up. I don't know who's running the ego, but it isn't here to serve you, I promise.
Stephanie Mara 33:20
Yeah. I talk a lot here what I'm hearing in that it's just about choice, that you have choice. And so you can express something in a way that feels in alignment with yourself that you get to slow down and tune in of like, also assessing who is it that I want to be in this world? And I have tons of choices in front of me. And will this decision guide me towards the person I want to be and how I want to be in relationship with food? Or maybe it won't and if it won't, you also don't need to judge that either. That's that witness of like, hmm, that's really interesting. Why would I choose something that doesn't actually lead me there?
Debra Silverman 33:59
That's exactly right and permission to do it. Like I tell people before you're gonna break a habit before you're gonna get off the addiction, you have to have a window of time to do everything you're saying, where you have compassion and acceptance for wow, that's so interesting. There's a part of me that's a sabotager. It doesn't want to be happy for some reason. I just had this whole program presented by my family that people were like my big joke is that I'm the president of the Jews for joy club, and I have no members. Because I grew up in oy, everything was oy, everything was so sad when I grew up. To reinstate that and to say, because you and I have the same life lesson we're 30 years apart. To reinstate that and say, I'm going to choose joy against all of my programming is muscles, assistance has to come, role models like Stephanie, please do not assume that you're supposed to do this alone. You cannot get through this planet alone. Period, full stop. And that can be a best friend. Or I tell people go pay for your best friend. If you need a good therapist and Stephanie is one of them. But you have to be a really good one do not just go to be heard. You want changes. I tell clients if you're not getting a change after a month of working with a therapist, something's very wrong.
Stephanie Mara 35:13
Yeah, I agree that we are not meant to do healing by ourselves. And there's so much pressure, especially in our individualistic culture that like, you got to just do it all on your own. You have to do solo adventures, you have to do your solo internal explorations, but we learn and we grow by being in connection with each other. And so I completely agree with that. Whatever anyone's ever working through, it's where do I find my people? And what do I need around me to help me to get to where I want to go?
Debra Silverman 35:45
It's so beautiful. And I have such a high value for community which you were here so many years ago, in my school, it's now we're nine years in my company is run by 50 women, it's only women. And it's all about people from around the world come in, I love watching it, they study their chart, they know nothing about astrology, they were interested, but they didn't really, and then all of a sudden the language, and then they understand what's his name, then they understand what's her name. And then all of a sudden, the ability to calm oneself, because that's what we're talking about. I think the nervous system is what compels us, the emotional body in conjunction with the nervous system. I'm feeling sad and scared. I'm all jacked up. I want to soothe this because after I eat a lot, I feel like, oh I feel so much more, I feel like I came home. But why is it that I'm not home? That's the question of the day. Where did I go? And why when I'm quiet, I'm going to meditate, I hate it. Because I have to listen to my internal dialogue. I'll tell you what happens when you grow up. The internal dialogue becomes very quiet. You're lucky to have Stephanie, I'm just saying that out loud. If somebody would have told me when I was young, to do self compassion, and to really turn on the observer, I would have been like, why did someone not tell me this sooner? Because it took me so many hardships to get to this place.
Stephanie Mara 37:01
Yeah. Similar path. I wish that also someone had told me sooner that I didn't need to shame and judge myself so harshly for just being a human, and going through really hard times.
Debra Silverman 37:15
I know. When my fantasy is in our and you have Jupiter in Pisces and Mercury in Pisces, you're a real idealist. You have a sense of what could be. I imagine in the future, this is my fantasy. I hope they're listening my the council. That if the human condition instead of the default being ow it hurts, and I'm not okay. And I'm so self conscious. And I feel so scared. What if the default was, I'm so happy I'm here. I'm so wanted, I feel so comfortable, I can slow down. I know exactly how to ask for help. What if that was built into the operating system? Because then the kids would grow up instead of being really insecure when someone didn't invite them for a birthday to have an internal voice that said, you are so loved. You didn't want to go to that party. But instead of saying, like, that's just mean. But anyways, I don't think they really want my opinions. Because when I call 1-800 God and tell them my new ideas, no one ever answers. So I'm not sure that's really working for me. But it's definitely a dream I have for the future that the children would come in with an internal gauge that started off with I'm so glad you're here. And you're so beautiful. And God loves you so much. And that's the higher self. Just so you all know that's the rising sign when you go look for your rising sign. In your case, it sagittarius, that's the party that's you're lucky yours is an optimist who really does have faith, and you're very enthusiastic. Not everyone has that one.
Stephanie Mara 38:39
My husband always jokes that he imagines my inner world is like rainbows and unicorns.
Debra Silverman 38:44
Oh my God, he's so right. But that is not my inner world. Just letting you know. So that everyone has different systems, that's called Sag rising, if you're interested in hearing about the 12 signs, because I'm sure you're all going what about my soul? There is a workshop this summer that I'm doing this called, I don't know what it's called. But it's in July. If you go to my website, I'm teaching once a week, an hour about this very topic. The emotional body starts in the fourth house, where the imprint of the childhood was put in place with pain or so much suffering. It's the ladder. If you work it through, you end up finding your career, your purpose, your function, your building, look at you. It's such a great example. The very thing that hurt you has become your teaching tool.
Stephanie Mara 39:27
I didn't want to say something cliche, like turning lemons into lemonade, but I often see that the path that I went on was exactly the path that I needed to go on. Like I do not see the years that I struggled with food as bad or wrong or took me away from something. It was exactly what I needed to go through to get to where I am today. But I don't want to diminish that for anyone listening. You may go through periods of like, who could I have been or where my life might have gone if I didn't have gone on this journey, which that can be a grief process that sometimes is a part of the journey. But it gave me personally just a lot of insights into, like, we've been talking about just what it means to be human, and what it means to actually show up for ourselves through anything. And even if it's hard, and even if it's painful.
Debra Silverman 40:20
You have such a sweet heart, your nature, and this is what you do for all of us that listen to you, whoever's in the circle that's listening, you have such an optimistic, compassionate experience with pain. And that is the simple formula, an optimistic, compassionate attitude towards your pain, if everyone in the room just did this, and it's so wonderful being in this new relationship because my humans been activated. So I have to say things like, I'm scared, you know, being single and being alone and all that was so much easier. But the truth is, the human shows up to your point about as soon as you're with the other, and now you got to share your secrets. And you realize how tender your heart is. That's why we love you so much. Because your hearts open. Why can't everyone just take off their shields and drop it? I don't know, I like being naked. But that's not the popular point of view.
Stephanie Mara 41:06
Yeah, it's hard, it's vulnerable. And to your point, before we wrap up, I have always had a very different perspective of sadness, just because I was someone who had to experience depression at such a young age, that I never wanted to make it go away. I was like, this is the experience that I'm having. And sure, there have been a lot of suggestions over time around how to fix this sadness, or how to change this sadness. But it feels like just this part of me that I want to have a relationship with it. And so it's often what I find is being with other people, it's like, can we create a relationship with the parts of us that other people or society has a hard time being with within ourselves? How do we start to be with ourselves in those things?
Debra Silverman 42:00
And one of the secrets for any of you who are spiritual is you just imagined that your soul or God is in love with you, couldn't wait for you to be born, was so happy you took on this assignment and is totally tracking you you're being watched and protected. So if that's at all soothing, spiritually, every single person in their pain body, that pain becomes the doorway to their liberation. I don't know. I don't really understand it, but it's real.
Stephanie Mara 42:28
Yeah. Well, I so appreciate you being here and sharing your wisdom and I know you listed a few things about upcoming things, but how can people listening to this keep in touch with you?
Debra Silverman 42:38
Real simple. It's just three words, DEBRA, Debra Silverman, astrology. It's on, I mean, really, at this age, I should not be saying this, I'm on Instagram and Facebook and Tik Tok and YouTube. And it's embarrassing. My friends are like, first of all, why are you still working. And second of all, social media. I'm like, it's an internet world. We live in cyberspace now. And I can teach a school people from all over the world with 10 people just so intimate. Up comes their chart, and we start to go deep into there. And then people write me these letters. And I get all these presents. It's so fun.
Stephanie Mara 43:12
And I love everything you do put out on social media, because it's such a compassionate approach to just being a human and astrology.
Debra Silverman 43:20
I can really feel our echo chamber, like we really share a very similar philosophy, which by the way, it's gotten popular feeling your feelings and don't deny them. Don't make sadness wrong. You embrace that part of you. I get so sad over this planet you can't imagine, not because of my personal life, but because all I have to do is say the word refugees and my hear tbreaks, I'm just that girl super sensitive.
Stephanie Mara 43:47
Yeah, I mean, as am I, which is probably why I was drawn to coming to your class to begin with way back when. So yeah. Thank you for...
Debra Silverman 43:59
What a beautiful, you made it so easy. What a beautiful interview. I really appreciate.
Stephanie Mara 44:04
Oh, thank you. Well, I am so grateful that our paths have crossed. And I appreciate all of your wisdom and you sharing your life experiences here today. So just thank you for your time and being here. And to all that are listening. As always reach out anytime with any questions. I would love to hear your insights from this episode. So email me anytime at support@stephaniemara.com and I look forward to connecting with you all again real soon. Bye!
Keep in touch with Debra here:
Website: https://debrasilvermanastrology.com/
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Book: The Missing Element