Breaking Up With Diet Culture, The Illusion of Body Control, and What's Really On The Other Side of Healing

Welcome to The Satiated Podcast where we explore physical and emotional hunger, satiation, and healing your relationship with your food and body. I'm your host Stephanie Mara Fox your Somatic Nutritional Counselor. I’m super excited to introduce you all today to Saskia Carr. Saskia is a certified intuitive eating coach and mindfulness meditation teacher. She supports others with healing their relationship with food and their bodies through Intuitive Eating, body neutrality and mindfulness practices. She is a fat positive coach and she works alongside a number of body image activists whose work centers on body liberation. She helps women start eating without guilt and shame and step into a new way of relating to their food, body, and worth. Welcome Saskia!

Saskia Carr 00:51

Thank you so much for having me.

Stephanie Mara 00:53

I'm thrilled to connect with you today. I feel like I've been following you on social media forever, because you put out such amazing content. And so I'm excited to get to know you more and your journey today.

Saskia Carr 01:08

Yeah, I'm excited to be here. Thank you.

Stephanie Mara 01:10

Yeah. Well, let's start out with you know, how did you personally get into this work? Because we all have the adventures and healing journeys that we've been on ourselves usually.

Saskia Carr 01:21

Yeah, absolutely. So I kind of fell into this work in a way. So I had a very disordered relationship with food for over 20 years. For me it was very restrictive. So it was just after I left school, and my relationship with food in school was pretty good. Actually, I went on some diets, but not for very long. And I would say, in comparison to a lot of teenage girls, my relationship with food was pretty good. But when I left school, I lost quite a lot of weight. And then I spent the next 20 years trying to maintain that. And I just thought that I was healthy. You know, my friends thought of me as Saskia, the healthy one and the fit one. But really, it was a very disordered relationship with food and my body. And I don't think I even really realized how disordered it was until I was on the other side. So when I turned 40, I was probably in the worst, like, really hit diet bottom. I was macro counting at that time, and putting every single piece of my food into my fitness pal, weighing my vegetables. And my daughter was little at the time. And I had a sense that this isn't great that I am doing this. And she's seeing me do this. But she was small enough at that time, probably not to notice. But I had a sense inside that something just didn't feel right. And then when I turned 40, I remember having this really intense kind of lightbulb moment, I was looking at myself in the mirror, but not in a body checking way, like a deep in my eyes kind of way. And I was thinking to myself awww I've got this cake. I can have a piece today. But it has to be small. And then if I have that this afternoon, I have to change my dinner tonight. And then I can't have any if there's any leftover tomorrow, and just these thoughts and this rumination about the food that I was eating. And I looked into my eyes and just thought, I can't keep doing this. I can't keep doing this. And I cannot be standing in this position on my birthday next year or in five years or in ten years doing the same thing. So even though I was at that point, I had no idea what another option was. I had heard of every diet under the sun, but I had never, in all those years heard of intuitive eating. And I can't remember what podcast it was that I discovered. But I listened to one and it was just like, wow, like there is this other thing. There is this way of eating where we actually eat what we want and we listen to our bodies like that is wild! And then I just I was hearing so much that I just kind of fell into this hole of consuming every single thing I could get my hands on. Once I kind of get into something I get into it. And so I was listening to Intuitive Eating podcasts and reading all the books. And then I got myself my own Intuitive Eating coach. And when I started my Instagram account, it was just me sharing my own story. At that stage, I had no social media anymore. I'd stopped Facebook a long time ago, I didn't have an Instagram account. But I started this. And I started to see how other people were really interested and started to see how my story was really resonating with other people. And I was like, oh, it's not, it's not just me, you know, this is happening to so many other women and people out there. And after a while, I just felt so passionate about this. And after I started to see the difference in my life through this healing process, then I retrained as an intuitive eating counselor, I retrained as a mindfulness meditation teacher, and also as a life coach, as well, a life and mindset coach. So yeah, I kind of fell into it, because it was my healing journey first, and then I started the Instagram account. And then it really did, I know it sounds cliche, but it really did change my life. And it changed the trajectory of my life as well.

Stephanie Mara 07:05

Yeah, thanks for sharing all of that, you know, what I really hear is, as soon as you kind of had that moment in the mirror, and I feel like a lot of us have those moments, I totally understand that moment where you kind of are looking at yourself and realizing something needs to change. Like this really isn't sustainable, the way that I am interacting with this thing that I need, you know, that we can't live, we can't survive without food. And just saying like, yeah, something needs to change. And just like, I totally understand that impulsive, like, let's just dive right in, let's learn all the things, there's got to be something different out there. You know, I'm really hearing like, it's been quite a journey. And now you support others on that healing path.

Saskia Carr 07:22

Yeah, it feels like such a privilege to do this work. And for me, what I love so much to see is just how much space starts to open up when you are not spending all your days ruminating and worrying about food and your body, this space, this energy, just this space that opens up to start exploring. So that was something that definitely happened for me, and I love being able to support my clients on that journey, too.

Stephanie Mara 07:57

Yeah, you know, I think that when we talk about diet culture, like how do you define it, because we're talking about that moment of awareness of Oh, I am entrenched in diet culture. And I am not having the kind of relationship with food and body that feels free, that feels regulating. And so how does someone even start to identify am I in diet culture, if they feel like okay, some of the things you're describing here are things that I kind of do, like how else can they kind of start to identify, Oh, yeah, I'm really living in that dieting mentality.

Saskia Carr 08:36

Yeah, I mean, I think the first thing to say is I think we all are. I think we're swimming in it. And I think it's impossible to not be part of it in some way, unless you are really intentionally rejecting it. Like our culture is, you know, we live in a fatphobic and anti-fat world, and the messages are coming from everywhere. They're coming from the people in our lives, they're coming from the media, they're coming from healthcare practitioners, it's so entrenched. So I think the first thing is to say, we're all in it just depends to what degree we're in it. And even, you know, even this idea of just choosing to eat in a certain way for health. You know, wellness culture is really the most modern incarnation of diet culture. So, if I kind of answered the rest of your question, for me, I think it was just that every single one of my eating decisions was based on external rules. So I described that like having a backpack. So it's like when you are young, you have this backpack, which is empty, and you're just eating normally. You're listening to your body, you're eating what, you know, you're eating when you're hungry, you stop when you're full. Maybe you just eat for pleasure, all those sort of things. But over our lifetime, each diet we do, each thing we hear a family member or friend tell us about, each thing we pick up from the media, we kind of put all these rules in the backpack, and they just start to get heavier and heavier, and we're carrying them around all the time. So for me, it was that I was always eating based on what I thought I should eat, not what I actually wanted to eat, not what the inner wisdom of my body was telling me would be delicious and satisfying. So it was based on those rules, it was definitely also for me, this connection that my worth, and my identity, and who I was as a person was based on the size and shape of my body, and that I was a good person if my body was a certain size, and I was a good person if I ate a certain way. You know, I remember thinking that what my cupboard looked like, my food cupboard was like sort of an indication of my identity and who I was as a person, and how good I was as a person, or how I fed my daughter was an indication of how, quote unquote, good of a parent I was. So that's some of the ways that it showed up for me. And I think it's, it's to kind of notice how much time and how much of your day and how much of your thoughts are spent thinking about this and worrying about this and how much fear and anxiety exists around food in your body. Because for me, there was so much fear and just so much anxiety as well.

Stephanie Mara 08:36

Yeah, I think that's such a great identification, that it's not necessarily about the food, it's what is your body's response to the food. And that if there is an abundant amount of fear, of anxiety, of overwhelm, just even interacting with different foods, that's kind of an identification of hmmmm might be a little bit in diet culture, or I've been taught at some point something about food. And I love that you pointed out that it's really interconnected with also our body and our bodies image and what we've been taught about our worth based off of how we look. And sometimes that can so affect our relationship with food, because we're taught that if I just control my food, I can control my body. And it's really not true.

Saskia Carr 13:12

No, no, it's not. And if I can control my food, too, I can control my life. I remember they would be for me something on a Sunday night where maybe I'd be feeling anxious about the week ahead or something that was coming up. And in order to manage that, I would think right, what is my weekly food going to be? How can I plan out my food in this really structured and controlled way? Because that was my way of dealing with my anxiety. And at the same time, it created so much anxiety. So yeah, it's a that was a very interesting connection for me. And I remember when I stopped dieting on a Sunday night thinking, oh, like, I've got to just sit with this. Yeah, because there wasn't that thing or this illusion of control or something that could fix me that I was so focused on.

Stephanie Mara 14:19

Yeah, that's such an important part of the healing process that you're pointing to is that moment where you're kind of starting to lean into no longer relying on food to maybe help you as much you know, sometimes it still might happen, but as much with emotional regulation, and then that means that everything that food has been kind of stuffing down, it's like oh, oh, this is what I have to sit with? Like what what do I do with this now? And sometimes I find that our behaviors with food can sometimes get worse before it gets better, so to speak, because that can feel so overwhelming that we go back to the food behavior for support to try to navigate all the intensity of the emotions then coming up in that space.

Saskia Carr 15:10

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And it was interesting because I actually stopped drinking before I started this stuff. And it was a similar thing. Like, instead of having a glass of wine, it was like, started this stuff. And it was a similar thing. Like, instead of having a glass of wine, it was like, oh, I have to sit with that uncomfortable feeling as well. So there was a lot for me getting more comfortable with that discomfort and more allowing myself to sit with feelings that I had probably suppressed and push down a lot.

Stephanie Mara 15:46

Yeah, in your work with others now, what have you found be supportive to slowly start to enter into that space of sitting with what is more, and maybe leaning on food for emotional purposes less?

Saskia Carr 16:03

Yeah, great question. So I think it all comes back to that reconnecting to the internal sensations of the body. And knowing that all the emotions that are coming up and that you're experiencing are not good or bad, even though that's something that most of us were taught growing up, and to be able to welcome that emotion and not judge yourself for having that emotion. And becoming more aware of how each of those emotions may present itself in your body. So for me, I know that anxiety sits very much in my tummy. And you know, getting clear on whether it is a fight feeling or twisting feeling, or if it is still or moving, or the color it has, and the temperature it has. And kind of getting clear on that and being able to even put a hand on a place on your body. And breathe into that and just saying like it's okay for you to be here. You're welcome. And, and just getting more comfortable with these that kind of say, Okay, I don't want you here, leave now. So that's, that's part of the work that I, you know, I still do myself and I work with my clients with as well. And imagining that sort of stuff you do quite a bit as well, too.

Stephanie Mara 17:35

Yeah, it's such an ongoing process, because it's feeling our emotions, it's not a one and done kind of experience, because we are emotional human beings, we're gonna feel emotions our entire lives. And so yeah, I totally hear that it's a practice over and over and over again. And, you know, I really appreciate you just even pointing out that it does take time to get comfortable feeling them, because we received so many messages from a young age around what it means to be an emotional human being to be a person that feels things even maybe sometimes intensely. And if you receive messages from a young age of, oh, just get over it, or why are you crying, or, you know, even if no one was there at all to hold space for what you were feeling, you know, these are all the reasons why maybe food and even a focus on our body image came in to begin with. And so it takes time. And, you know, I love that you were like even putting a hand on your body and like learning where does this emotion live? You know, just to start to come into contact with like, this is my experience of this now. You know, even like relearning, Okay, if I was, you know, having my first emotion as a baby, how do I wish I would have been met as a baby experiencing this emotion? Just to make it be okay that you're having that.

Saskia Carr 19:02

Yeah, yeah. So, so much. And I know that for a lot of my clients, they got the message when they were young, that their emotions were too much, that they were too sensitive, and that the people around them couldn't hold those big emotions. But I find it really interesting because my daughter is nearly nine now. And I notice how much of a difference it makes when all the kind of full spectrum of emotions are welcomed. So there was recently when she was doing a drawing and she got really angry and frustrated at herself because this drawing wasn't what she wanted or what she expected. And she kind of came in and I could see that she had this kind of anger and frustration. And I think I said something like, you know it's okay to be frustrated and angry. And it was almost like she was like, ahhhh, and you could see her like shoulders drop and this sense of relief, because it's not just the emotion that we're having that is challenging, it's that we then layer on top of that, I shouldn't be having this, I'm a bad person, this is a bad thing to be experiencing. And so just that like welcoming and saying it's okay, provides so much relief for us. And it's like, yeah, I can be happy. And I can be joyful. And I can also be really angry and sad and frustrated, and all these other things, and they are all okay.

Stephanie Mara 20:42

I love that. You know, what that makes me think of is, oftentimes, we're saying it's the emotion that is maybe fueling emotional eating, when actually something that you're pointing to is it's not necessarily the emotion, it's our reaction to the emotion that's fueling the emotional eating, that if we just allow the emotion to exist, we'll be like, Oh, it's okay to be angry, it's okay to be upset, It's okay to be sad, but because we're judging, or we're criticizing, or we're fearing our emotion, it's the reaction to the emotion that then kind of fuels us to then go maybe reach for food sometimes.

Saskia Carr 21:22

Yeah, absolutely. It's like, I know, there's something where they call it the second arrow, and it's like, you have this first arrow, which is the actual emotion, which is painful, and there's an ouch. And then the second arrow is like the judging of yourself for having that. And I know that a lot of my clients have that with body image stuff to where it's like, Oh, why am I still having these feelings about my body? Like, I shouldn't be having them. I thought I was further along in the process. What's wrong with me? And so it's the initial feeling of body image distress, coupled with the judgment of that. So, yeah, I think that's absolutely right. It really the initial emotion, I know there's some research about the fact that an actual emotion doesn't stay in the body for that long. But when we judge it, it really kind of accentuates it.

Stephanie Mara 22:22

Yeah. And I appreciate you bringing in the piece around body image as well. Because yes, it's the same thing. Like just how you were saying before of we are all entrenched in diet culture. Well, we're all entrenched in this fatphobic weight stigmatized world. And so I don't think I know a single person that goes through 365 days of the year, like really loving their body and being completely comfortable with it. I think everyone has difficult body image days. And so it's kind of saying, oh, okay, this is just what's happening for me today. It's okay to sometimes have a rough day being in this body and sometimes it intensifies when we start judging it. I shouldn't be, you know, oh, shouldn't I be loving my body all the time? Like, haven't I been, like you said, like, further along on this journey? Haven't I been working at this for so long? But I honestly feel like until we live in a world where every single body is accepted and appreciated and respected, that we're all going to have those days sometimes.

Saskia Carr 23:31

Yeah, absolutely. And I personally, in my own journey, and in the work I do with clients, try not to focus on this idea of loving the way your body looks. You can love and respect your body and still, at times, not love the way that you look. Look, it's different for everyone. But for me, it's never been about wanting to like get in a bikini and like love the way my body looks. It's the ability to find my sense of worth outside of my body. Sometimes I might like the way it looks. Other times I don't, but I'm able to say this is the way my body looks at the moment today. And I'm not loving what I see right now. And that's still okay. So that sort of sense that it is what it is. And I can still treat it with love and respect. And I can still move on with my day and do the things I want to do without that staying in there and kind of ruminating around all day.

Stephanie Mara 24:39

I'm completely on the same page with you. I think I've gotten to the same place where, you know, we don't necessarily like love every single person in our life all the time. Sometimes we get into arguments with them. Sometimes we're frustrated with them, and it's the same thing with our bodies. Sometimes we're going to be frustrated with it. Sometimes we're going to be disappointed in it, sometimes we're not going to be on the same page with it. And I think I've gotten to a similar place of, I'm simply just grateful to have a body because I couldn't be here if I didn't have a body. And so I'm just so grateful that I'm living inside of this body right now, whatever's happening with it. Like, however it shifts and changes. I'm still here in this body. And yeah, there are some days where it's just like, Yeah, it's really hard to be in this body that I've been gifted, but it's still mine. I still have it.

Saskia Carr 25:31

Yeah, yeah, I love what you just said there. And, for me, I think it's also this sense of, I don't now blame my body, or try and fix my body or talk negatively to my body, it's being able to be really kind of neutral. And fact based and say, I'm feeling really uncomfortable about my body today, rather than my body looks disgusting. So there's this sense of being just more real. And a lot of the time when body image stuff comes up, for me, it might be hormones, but often it's when other stuff is going on in my life, as well. And I did actually have this really interesting thing happened to me the other night too where I was lying in bed, and I kind of felt my tummy. And it was so much softer than it's ever been. And I actually kind of was like, ah, like, that is my, that is my soft belly now. And for years, I wanted that to be tight and hard and all of those things, and I kind of appreciated the the softness of it. And that was quite a different place for me to be in, a place I most certainly thought I would never find myself in.

Stephanie Mara 26:54

Yeah, what a beautiful moment to have with your body. And yeah, I agree with you that it's also getting curious when those body image things come up, what else is going on? Because I agree with you that oftentimes, those body image concerns are usually happening when stress levels have increased, when we're feeling dysregulated, when we've maybe moved into like a fight or flight response, that it goes back to that Oh, perceived sense of control over like, Ah, I don't know what to do here. Maybe I can control something in my body and like that will bring some sense of safety. But if we can get curious about the impulse to want to control the body, it can kind of be like, oh, what else is going on here?

Saskia Carr 27:40

Yeah, yeah. And that word safety, there's so much of a sense of trying to find safety, and being able to try and find a sense of safety within your body, however it is now. And that's not necessarily easy, but that's definitely a big part of the work, I think as well.

Stephanie Mara 28:03

Yeah, and you know, even the moment that you had just recently with your body, that I've had those experiences as well with my body, and you know, it's kind of this experience of whatever you think that you would get from getting the body shape, weight, type, like the relaxation, the confidence, the peace that you think you're gonna get at that end result, actually can be cultivated right here right now in this body. And so it's, it's kind of like, wow, I don't have to wait for that. I can actually cultivate it right now. And just kind of say that that journey can actually be done. I don't have to keep striving down that path. Because actually, that doesn't even get you to where you want to go to begin with.

Saskia Carr 28:53

Hmm, yeah, I mean, I thought that when my body reached a certain size, I'd suddenly be confident and I wouldn't feel anxious. And I'd be all of these things. And actually, when I reached that point, I was so anxious about maintaining it and had put so much energy into this thing being the thing. And so I didn't get what I thought I wanted. And so these feelings of confidence and all these other things or happiness, yeah, we can seek them in the body with the body's we're in now. And I know that that was definitely easier for me because I recovered into a straight size body. And for other people, this isn't just an internal thing. They're actually going into the world and experiencing anti fat bias and that impacts people in larger bodies, obviously, in a completely different way. And yet, there are still ways that people, as you said, can be seeking what they desire in their current body now, in a way that actually feels genuine and real and supportive because actually a lot of the times what we're seeking is an illusion. And I've had a number of clients who've had weight loss surgery, and even when they lost the weight, what they thought they were gonna get, it didn't happen, even though they may have received more privileges in society, which they did appreciate and and made a big difference, the inner feelings didn't shift.

Stephanie Mara 30:29

Yeah, and I don't know if you've experienced this, I experienced this on my healing journey and I've seen this a lot with those I work with as well that there's, at that point in time, like a real sense of grief. Like, oh, my gosh, you've been working so hard at this for so long, and then realizing it's never going to actually give you what you're looking for. That there can be just a huge sense of grief, during that part of the healing path.

Saskia Carr 30:56

Yeah, deep, deep sense of grief. And for a lot of people a real kind of mourning period, as well, I really see that a lot. And during that grief period, too, that's when people really want to hold on to what was there because they think that that might be the thing. And so I absolutely feel that as a as a mourning period and a period of grief and and a period that you can't just skip over, unfortunately. You gotta go through it.

Stephanie Mara 31:31

Yes. Yeah, no, I totally agree with that, you know, maybe a part that we kind of just want to bypass that. But you've been on this journey for a really long time. And also, there's this piece of having to sometimes say goodbye to like food or body behaviors that have been there trying to support you for so long, and you're realizing it, it's never going to actually get you to the regulated, self connected, vibrant life that you want to be living. And so there is this goodbye processes mourning process that needs to happen to make space to start to approach yourself and your food and your body in new ways. And yeah, I think it's a very important under discussed part of the journey and, and also very uncomfortable part of the journey, especially if you've been leaning on your food and your body to provide you with that sense of comfort and safety in the world, you're kind of doing a little bit of a deep dive into the the lack of safety, or the lack of comfort that might be present, to then be able to cultivate a more salient experience of those things. Because ultimately, if your sense of safety is being tied to a certain body shape, and your body shape changes, you know, then suddenly, you are consistently feeling unsafe again and again and again, you know, so we have to kind of start to bring that experience into the body on things that you can more rely on instead of relying on that from your body's appearance.

Saskia Carr 33:06

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And that sense of who are you? And what are your values outside of your body? And how can you cultivate and lean into those parts of you as well? I know for me, that was such a big part of it. Because I always just thought when I met somebody like, you know, what do they think of my body? And that was the main thing about me, rather than kind of thinking, who am I? How am I showing up? What qualities about me make me, Saskia? And what do I value in this world? And how can I turn the volume up on those things, and turn the volume down on this body part of things, which is a part of me, but certainly not the whole part of me. And so that part of it, I think, is really key as well.

Stephanie Mara 34:02

Yeah. And it takes time to really discover what your values are. And I think this is I do a lot of this work with those that come into my practice, that when you get to the point where maybe your food and body concerns are starting to decrease, there's just this gap of who am I and what do I like and what do I want to fill my time with. And there needs to be a lot of experimentation and exploration in that space. Because you may not know what your hobbies are or what you like to do if all of your time has been focused on your food and your body. So you may need to go like, try a whole bunch of things. And then notice did I like that? Did I not like that?

Saskia Carr 34:47

Yeah, yes. So true. I mean, I had a client recently who was like, I literally don't know who I am or what I like outside of this because she had spent so much time in the gym, and then exercising outside of that and focusing on what she was eating the whole time that so much had kind of decreased in the rest of her life. So, yes, sometimes that can feel a little bit overwhelming. Sometimes it can be fun because people start to, even when it comes to movement, like, alright, maybe I'm gonna try hula hooping or something totally different and fun. And like, what are my hobbies? Like, what do I, what do I want to do outside of this? So that's definitely, as you said, a period of experimentation. And something I wanted to share that one of my clients has just started doing, and I just love this idea, is when she goes to bed at night now, rather than doing like a gratitude practice, she actually thinks to herself, how did I live my values today? What did I do today, which I felt was really in line with my values, because that just starts to bring to mind in a consistent way, yeah, I was really compassionate here to that person, or this is something I did here and that kind of starts to make you think to yourself, ah, like, this is how I exist outside of just my external shell. And I love that as a practice.

Stephanie Mara 36:30

I love that too. Because oftentimes, I find that the evening is when that really loud internal dialogue, a part of you can start to yell at you about what you ate, what you didn't eat, you know, what, how much you moved, like, where you got it wrong. And to even just start practicing replacing that, with how was I in alignment with myself today? Where can I feel really proud of myself that I showed up differently, or even just showed up at all, you know, that just even that practice of, you know what, I don't have to listen to that voice. Like that has been a pattern and I can actually kind of shift my attention to the person I want to be in the life that I want to create.

Saskia Carr 37:19

Yeah, and when you said that, it just made me think too, of how important it is to disconnect yourself from that diet culture mean voice as being your voice and to personify that or call it your diet culture voice and realize that just because you're thinking it doesn't make it true. And I did a lot of work of kind of like, just being really aware of it, and separating myself from it creating some sort of separation, because it was so enmeshed before. It was like it was me, that was the only thing. So that recognition of yeah, I'm having those thoughts again, about what I ate today and where I went wrong and yet, it is simply a thought that I'm having. And I don't have to connect with that or believe that in the same way that I always have.

Stephanie Mara 38:19

Yeah, I think that's such an excellent first baby step that sometimes you know, if you're just starting this journey, or wherever you're at on this path of just beginning to identify, oh, this is a diet part of me that's speaking. And I totally get that once you start actually not enmeshing with that part of you as much, it's really powerful because it can so feel like well, I'm thinking it, isn't it me, and just to identify that this is a part of you that got created for a reason. They've been trying to support and protect you, but maybe not doing a really great job at it. And so just to identify like, oh, yeah, a part of me is having these thoughts right now. But that doesn't mean that it's a truth or a fact or something that I even need to respond or react out to.

Saskia Carr 39:07

Hmm, yeah, sometimes I think my clients often describe it, like this internal battle that goes on and I remember once at the beginning of the journey for me, I just woke up one morning and like, all I wanted was an almond croissant. I don't know why. Didn't, I've never even really liked them before, not being a thing. But, I had this like overwhelming sense of like wanting one and of course, the diet culture voice was like you don't need one of those, just just have breakfast at home, you know, all those voices. And I remember just thinking, I'm not listening to you. My body is strongly telling me something different and I kind of almost ran down to the cafe and got this almond croissant and was like, just looked normal. But inside I was having this like swearing match with the diet culture voice. I remember eating this thing. And it was like, this almond croissant was like perfectly made for my body. In this moment, it was such a almost spiritual experience of like wanting this thing and then feeling this desire for this thing. And so, yeah, I think sometimes that internal dialogue can feel really overwhelming for people at the beginning, because it is like this, fighting back and forth. But the more that you start to listen to, and kind of get in touch with the body's voice, and to actually take action on that, the quieter that other voice slowly over time starts to become.

Stephanie Mara 40:43

Yeah, yeah, I really kind of get this imagery of like, put the sword down. Like, you don't have to fight this part of you, you don't have to continue to be in a battle with it. It's like we were talking about before of, you know, the emotion comes up, and then you judge the emotion. It's like, okay, this part is coming up. But you don't have to fight them. You know, alright, so there's a part of you that's saying, like, don't go eat that like, okay, great. That's your perspective, you can have that opinion. I don't have to listen to you. You know, I don't know if like, you can think of, for those who are listening, anyone that you have in your life that you have a really easy time saying no to? Just like, yeah, okay. That's your perspective. No, I'm good. Like bringing that part of you into that moment. And just saying, like, I can say no to this part of me. I don't have to listen to them.

Saskia Carr 41:36

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Being able to say no to that part. And then when you said put the sword down, I think part of it too, is softening to that part, too. And going, I get it, I understand why you're there. This is what you've learned over your entire lifetime. And I know that you think you are trying to protect me from something. And so I have compassion for that voice. And I can, I can understand that as well. And I don't currently need you. But thank you, thank you for your service. But it is not something that I'm requiring right at this moment. So yeah, the ability to say no to that voice. And also not to just think of that voice as this evil thing, trying to ruin your life, but to have a sense of understanding for why it has been there throughout your life too.

Stephanie Mara 42:35

Yeah, I completely agree with that, I think even starting to imagine it as an inner child, or an inner teenager, that they started suggesting these things to you about your food and your body and these rules and these regulations for a reason. Because it helped them at that period of that time of your life. And so yeah, really meeting them with so much compassion of oh, yeah, it feels really scary for me to eat this other thing, right now. I totally get that, I'm still going to eat it and I can be here for you in that fear. But I'm not going to listen to you. And we're still going to go eat this thing, because that's what the body says that it wants right now.

Saskia Carr 43:17

Yeah. And look, sometimes the anger is necessary at certain points. But I think that softening there and understanding that those two realities, or those two parts of us can coexist. And we can continue to listen to the body and acknowledge that that other part is there. Because I do think for some people, there's a sense of, well, I'm still having these thoughts. isn't that bad? Shouldn't I just not have those thoughts? And I think allowing yourself to go, no, you can have, they can be there. You don't have to act on them. But you can still have them because we live in a world we live in which elevates certain bodies and demonizes other bodies. So it makes it makes a whole lot of sense.

Stephanie Mara 44:05

Yeah. So beautifully said, you know, I completely agree with that, that, you know, it's starting to befriend these parts of you and not see them as trying to get in the way or that they're bad or wrong. Or even that you're bad or wrong for having those thoughts. You know, I don't think that also those internal dialogues disappearing is a sign of your healing. I think that healing really gets to be oh, my interaction with these parts of me is changing. Not necessarily that they're just going to be like poof, gone and disappear.

Saskia Carr 44:41

Yeah, like your relationship to them changes. They don't necessarily just not exist, because you know, we're complex, we're not just, we're not just robots where we can go like, okay, I've taken that out of the computer system. Now it is gone.

Stephanie Mara 45:00

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think like, we will always have an inner child, we will always have these inner parts of ourselves that show up at different times for different reasons. And they have their own wants and needs. And it's kind of hearing them out, but then balancing it with checking in with your present day self and saying, well, what is my present body and my present day self need and is that in alignment with you? If it is great, we can move forward. And if it's not, we may need to have a little dialogue.

Saskia Carr 45:31

Yeah, yeah. And I think inner child work is really powerful in this food and body journey as well. And going back to those first times, when we experienced a moment of maybe the first moment we can remember of body shame, or being ashamed for the food we were eating. Because, yeah, I definitely think being able to reconnect and support and talk to that inner child with all the knowledge that we have now. And all the skills we have as our adult self has definitely been a really important part of, of my journey. And something that I talk with my clients about a lot as well.

Stephanie Mara 46:20

Yeah, well, I feel like we could talk forever and just just keep going on because there's so many layers here. But I so appreciate your time and your wisdom and you're just sharing your experience today. And I want to make sure we leave time for you to share how can individuals find you and keep in touch with you and your work in the world?

Saskia Carr 46:41

Yeah, well, thank you for having me. I have also loved chatting with you and getting to meet you. So people can get in touch with me the best way is via Instagram, which is my handle is @intuitively.eaten. And everyone struggles to spell intuitively no matter how many times they've spelt it. And you can also go to my website, which is saskiacarr.com as well. And I work both one on one with clients. And I have a group program as well. So get in touch with me.

Stephanie Mara 47:21

Yeah, and I'll put all of those links in the show notes so individuals can easily find you. I love what you put out on social media so definitely recommend following you. And just thank you again for having this conversation. It felt like a really powerful, important conversation to have today.

Saskia Carr 47:38

Thank you. I really loved it.

Stephanie Mara 47:40

Yeah, and to all those that are listening, if you have any questions, reach out anytime I will put both of our contact information in the show notes, and I look forward to connecting with you all again real soon. Bye!

Keep in touch with Saskia here:

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/intuitively.eaten/

Website: https://www.saskiacarr.com/

Contact: saskia@saskiacarr.com